Just picked up from the HSE media centre http://www.hse.gov.uk/ne...t/young-people300312.htm It is good to see that Judith is saying these things.

Talk is cheap. If the HSE were to preach what they teach we may have more sensible and pragmatic guidance.

Yes, Maybe you could call them an INDG or maybe put them in sector specific free leaflets and call them, lets say CIS for construction information sheets, or DIS for Docks Information Sheets. Oh, hang on.... It's amazing the number of times that people use this forum as a mouthpiece for their own prejudices against HSE and Inspectors. If Inspectors are bullying you into doing more than is required, then complain. Take the notice to a tribunal. Write to the Chief executive. If they are wrong and asking you to do something that is outside the scope of the law then they are acting outside of their warrant. If you do not complain then the assumption must be that you disagree with what they are saying because you want to do less than is actually required by the guidance.

Over the past 20 years I've had dealings with quite a few HSE inspectors the vast majority have been a joy to work with. And "working with" was their attutude. Recent experiences (albeit very few) have not been so good. I suspect the "new generation" suffer from the same arrogance & bluff I see with any "manager level person" under the age of 40. Or maybe I'm just becoming an old git.

For the record, I am not having a pop at HSE inspectors, my experience with them has been limited but quite positive. That said, the HSE have made a career of writing endless reams of often poorly drafted legislation, ACoPs and Guidance, which go into minute detail. They have done nothing positive to prevent or deter many of the poor practices in industry or to promulgate consistency in industry. It's all the fault of everyone else - nice gear, but no idea. Now to get back on with NCR for not providing a first aid box daily/ weekly checklist...I kid not!

On the one hand we have HSE saying H&S is simple and then in the next breath the cause of all the conkers bonkers stories are incompetent (poorly qualified) safety consultants.

Can it really be surprising that health and safety is so mocked by the media and general public when the organisation set up to promote and enforce such standards is so readily ridiculed by safety professionals. HSE has a difficult and thankless task, with significant government and public animosity and business apathy, and this is not enhanced at all by the negativity I have observed in my limited time here on these forums.

I'd say it's like the old addage, 'simple to learn, difficult to master' describes this down to a tee. When it comes to H&S management there are always people who can rattle off the buzz words/names such as heinrich and reason but then ask them to apply the principles in a real world environment and they'll fail, purely because they don't appreciate the absolute need for experience in the field. I came into H&S at a fairly young age, late 20's, but that was after working within my chosen (i use the word chosen VERY loosely) industry since leaving school. As a result I find myself in a pretty privilaged position that I've got a lot of experience whilst still being, well, not quite so young but hopefully still plenty of miles on the clock. The big problem is that there's a distinct lack of understanding the principle of balancing risk Vs cost (money, time, effort, reputation) by those who have been given power to make decisions. The other problem is the extreme polar opposites of those who make the headlines. You've either got the so called experts we see in the headlines and then you got the Darwin Award candiates who are queing up for a no win, no fee claim. That's why there will always be a place for good H&S professionals because ultimately we enable good, ethical and profitable business practices.... just my 2p's worth anyway...

I agree, Ray - and this can also include employers getting their own H&S Advisers to carry out needless risk assessments. It actually baffles me why Judith Hackett says she's baffled! If anyone knows why H&S gets out of hand it should be her - in my experience it's the fear factor: fear of bad publicity, or of a claim. In the example she gives, one could easily imagine the parents of an injured child taking a claim and of the papers making great play of any 'mistakes' made by the school. I also agree with the others - HSE seem to produce reasonable, if complex at times, guidance - then undermine it (and us) by saying 'it's easy' - a prime example is their example Assessments which neatly ignore the 'employers shall..' bits of the law....yet if anything happens up pops an Inspector to quote the law and guidance. HSE should realise that there's a 'hidden army' of good consultants out in the field (who don't charge the rates that they would - looking at their FFI plans) and who should be encouraged for the benefits they bring, rather than being ignored or sniped at.