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Ally  
#1 Posted : 26 April 2012 13:41:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ally

Any clarification on P/C Site Supervision? As a sub contractor, my guys have the two day SSSTS certificate--thats fine and dandy for the safety of our own guys, what is the recommendation for the Principal Contractor? Can he come and go as he sees fit, on a site with roughly three different subbies and up to ten guys working on different jobs? Surely the P/C must plan,manage and monitor the construction phase. How can he do that if the site manager leaves site to go to meetings or look after another site elsewhere, and no representative from their company fills in for him.
Chris Cahill  
#2 Posted : 26 April 2012 14:02:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris Cahill

Amongst other duties the principal contractor (PC) is the key duty holder to ensure effective management of Health and safety throughout the construction phase of the project. The PC is required to ensure that the construction phase is properly, planned managed and monitored with adequate resourced competent site management appropriate to the risk and activity. The PC should take reasonable steps to prevent unauthorised access to the site, the PC will be required to prepare and enforce any necessary site rules. However they are not required to undertake detailed supervision of contractors work. So the short answer is that they are(probably) not fulfilling their duties as per CDM 2007. Perhaps you should discuss this matter with them and get clarification on their position.
Lawlee45239  
#3 Posted : 26 April 2012 14:42:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

Ally wrote:
Any clarification on P/C Site Supervision? As a sub contractor, my guys have the two day SSSTS certificate--thats fine and dandy for the safety of our own guys, what is the recommendation for the Principal Contractor? Can he come and go as he sees fit, on a site with roughly three different subbies and up to ten guys working on different jobs? Surely the P/C must plan,manage and monitor the construction phase. How can he do that if the site manager leaves site to go to meetings or look after another site elsewhere, and no representative from their company fills in for him.
Is the said PC a management company or a working PC ( I guess from the above they are management)?? If the former they will have it written somewhere in their contracts a loop hole to get out of this, so check out the contract.
Chris Cahill  
#4 Posted : 26 April 2012 16:56:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris Cahill

Quote=Lawlee45239] Is the said PC a management company or a working PC ( I guess from the above they are management)?? If the former they will have it written somewhere in their contracts a loop hole to get out of this, so check out the contract.
I do not believe the enforcement agency would honour any loophole if an incident arose and legislation was not complied with.
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2012 20:35:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Totally agree with Chris' posts at #2 and 4. Moreover, CDM Regs are statutory criminal law and any contractual agreements would be sub-ordinate to criminal law.
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2012 23:01:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

To turn this around a bit then, if we ask: "does CDM require the PC to have a continuous supervisory presence on-site", then the answer is no. Ergo, the answer to "can he come and go as he sees fit" is: yes, with the proviso that necessary induction takes place, he is reasonably satisfied as to the competence and behaviours of those working on site, and adequate arrangements are in place to prevent unauthorised access during and off-shift.
Chris Cahill  
#7 Posted : 27 April 2012 06:59:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris Cahill

As I stated on a previous post the PC is required to ensure that the construction phase is properly, planned managed and monitored with adequate resourced competent site management appropriate to the risk and activity. It was not stated that they have to have a continuous presence on site.
SP900308  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2012 08:06:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Guys, I guess a good example would be where a PC has engaged a number of sub-contractors to carryout highway related utility works - say along a stretch of 20Km. Sub-contracting the work maybe the only way the PC can resource it but would it be necessary / reasonable for him to be present at multiple site locations (technically one site for the purposes of CDM) all the time? In this scenario, I'd imagine you'd have a roving PC 'site manager' who'd 'drop-in' at each site, periodically throughout the day. Does this satisfy the requirements of CDM? Is this adequate management and monitoring of the works by the PC? What do you think?
CliveLowery  
#9 Posted : 27 April 2012 09:08:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

I guess no to projects can be judged the same, an another example: Large mixed Private/Social Housing Estate. Social House all being renovated/insulated etc. Lots of trades ie Roofers, Renderers, Carpenters, Electricians & Plumbers, all working on different properties, all have their own SSSTS Supervisor. PC has an office at one end of the estate, he can at best only see 10% of the houses at anyone time - the manager is there most of the time but does have to go to his own head office at least once a day to collect drawings etc, he does not have an assistant. Does everyone stop work during his absence? Regards Clive
Stedman  
#10 Posted : 27 April 2012 09:08:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Ally, Although paragraph 150 c of the ACOP for 2007 CDM Regulations state that the Principal Contractor must; “ensure that the construction phase is properly planned, managed and monitored, with adequately resourced, competent site management appropriate to the risk and activity. If you look at paragraph 175 of the ACOP, this also clearly states that the “Principal contractors don't have to undertake detailed supervision of contractors' work”.
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