Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Thompson26147  
#1 Posted : 14 May 2012 10:56:28(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Thompson26147

Any experiences or risk assessments/training carried out in relation to unsafe headstones in cemeteries.
Tigers  
#2 Posted : 14 May 2012 11:41:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

My first port of call was National Association of Monumental Masons NAMM

www.namm.org.uk

A very useful and extremely helpful website.


Steve Granger  
#3 Posted : 14 May 2012 12:59:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

Thompson - try contacting a few of the local authority members though the IOSH Public Services Group or regional safety groups. I know West Sussex did a lot on this along with many other authorities and regions.
phargreaves04  
#4 Posted : 14 May 2012 13:24:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
phargreaves04

with regards to the manual handling try the dead lift
Canopener  
#5 Posted : 14 May 2012 13:57:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Between the title and the content of your post, I'm not quite sure what you're after but there is some further information here http://www.dunnco.org.uk/page4.htm that might be useful. I have done a memorial safety 'course' with these people which was quite useful.
sutherlandb  
#6 Posted : 14 May 2012 16:08:44(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

We carry out a Headstone Stabilisation program anually throughout 30+ cemeteries using a mobile gantry.
What sort of info are you looking for?
PH2  
#7 Posted : 14 May 2012 16:17:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PH2

Thompson,
you might find this link of some use.

http://www.iccm-uk.com/i...etter_memorialmanagement

PH2
bob youel  
#8 Posted : 15 May 2012 08:27:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Remember that such kit is usually private property so you need to address that area and masons do not usually put into a headstone any 'handling grips/points' as customers have not yet been educated to the fact that such headstones need to be handled. Many headstones are very smooth, large, heavy and not much 'bite' is possible when using strops etc. in many cases
Thompson26147  
#9 Posted : 16 May 2012 09:09:43(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Thompson26147

sutherlandb wrote:
We carry out a Headstone Stabilisation program anually throughout 30+ cemeteries using a mobile gantry.
What sort of info are you looking for?

We are dealing with local authority staff who check and if required lay down unsafe headstones
Thompson26147  
#10 Posted : 16 May 2012 09:12:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Thompson26147

phargreaves04 wrote:
with regards to the manual handling try the dead lift

Tried that one risk assessment showed it to be a grave risk
Bob Shillabeer  
#11 Posted : 16 May 2012 14:36:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Had the experience of my mothers headstone being laid flat along with about 150 others a few years ago. Totally unnecessary and very damaging. Look at the various websites that cover monument safety and you will see what I mean. This whole business came as a result of one child being injured by a six foot plus monument some ten years ago, and some companies jumped onto a money making bandwagon. As long as the headstone is constructed correctly by the undertaker it should not be a problem. Don't let someone just frighten into spending a lot of money on a problem that simply doesn't exist.
Graham Bullough  
#12 Posted : 17 May 2012 13:56:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

According to various websites safety concerns about headstone stability were heightened during the 1990s by some 10 significant incidents known to HSE. Most involved children and 3 of them were fatal. Therefore, Bob S’s suggestion that the whole monument safety business/bandwagon arose from “one child being injured” is surely incorrect.

Though I’ve had minimal involvement myself with headstone safety, it seems that burial authorities, mostly local councils, were pushed by one or more strong letters from HSE during the 1990s into devoting considerable resources to checking and testing for unstable memorials and then taking action where it was thought necessary. In the past it was apparently the norm for standard type tall headstones to be attached to their sunken base stones by ferrous metal rods/dowels inserted into matching holes in the both stones. If moisture could reach such rods, they would be prone to gradual weakening through corrosion. Nowadays, this problem is avoided by the use of stainless steel or non-ferrous rods. Furthermore, it seems that from the 1960s, many burial authorities imposed a height limit for all new headstones, i.e. half or less than the height of the former standard type headstone. It’s likely that this trend was prompted by experience of accidents to people working with or near headstones and also visitors - all before the 1974 Act and HSE’s inception. In addition it’s quite likely that monumental masons wanted to reduce their costs by buying smaller-sized stones which also gave advantages regarding manual handling and storage at their premises. Please can anyone with better knowledge expand on these aspects?

Though the matter of headstone stability is very sensitive and controversial, I suspect that burial authorities have tended to concentrate on ensuring headstone stability in order to reduce their vulnerability to enforcement by HSE, adverse media publicity and compensation claims, etc. arising from incidents involving headstones. By contrast, perhaps the risk of upsetting grave owners and visitors was regarded by some authorities as a lesser and cheaper option. Though grave owners are legally responsible for keeping headstones in a safe condition, burial authorities end up with responsibility in most cases because they have no way of identifying the grave owners, if any exist, for various reasons. For example, when people change address, how many bother to notify a burial authority when they ought to do so?

From visits to various cemeteries and graveyards in recent years (mainly in connection with urban geology and genealogy) I’ve noticed that some headstone stability measures evidently taken by burial authorities, or more likely their contractors, seem very crass, e.g. use of fencing posts hammered into the ground adjacent to headstones, large laminated warning notices and lots of coloured warning tape, and guaranteed to cause distress. However, in cases of old graves with tall headstones for which grave owners cannot be readily identified and contacted, is it really distressing or inappropriate for such headstones to be laid flat? For example, last year I managed to track down the grave of a great grandparent in a large old cemetery. Though the headstone was lying flat (either intentionally or having been pushed over by vandals) I didn’t mind - in fact I was delighted that the side with the lettering on it was facing upwards and gave me ample new genealogical information. However, this was just my own reaction and I fully appreciate that others may feel very different about headstones being laid flat.
bob youel  
#13 Posted : 17 May 2012 14:52:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

GB is very correct regarding the number of deaths

Additionally many owners put in their own headstones and do not use masons + on many an occasion the quality of work that has been undertaken by both masons and owners, in my experience, is poor to say the least but in their defence [in some cases] the area around one grave interfaces with another grave so there is little real ability to control such structures as ~5 graves with different owners interface with each other and the land is always moving - something that we do not deal with in 'normal' construction

Lead: Over the years much lead has been stolen from monuments; lead that formed part of the structural integrity of a headstone so this is yet another hazard

My advice is to go out with the lads that are to do the work and look at your problem noting that some head stones are very large, heavy and slippy along with poor foundations
sutherlandb  
#14 Posted : 17 May 2012 21:38:26(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

We (Angus Council) would never think about laying any stones flat. Any un-stable stones we encounter are lifted from the foundation using a mobile gantry, foundation removed and then the stone buried into the ground up to the bottom of the lowest lettering on the stone. Any larger stones (outwith gantry load) are done by external contracters using the same method.
Steve Granger  
#15 Posted : 17 May 2012 22:47:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

Sutherland - who pays for this good work and what assurance is there that you are not now liable for the stability issue or potential damage to the stone during this operation?
Graham Bullough  
#16 Posted : 18 May 2012 00:24:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Sutherland - You mention that the 'foundation' is removed during the remedial work you described. Unless the work includes appropriate new foundations, e.g. sub-surface packing on one or both sides of the sunken part of each headstone, are the headstones which receive such treatment likely to remain stable?

You also mention that the headstones are re-located deeper into the ground up to the bottom of the lowest lettering. Before this is done, are checks made to try and ensure that no further burials are likely to be made in the grave plots involved? The reason I mention this is that many grave plots can accommodate three or possibly more burials. If a plot is bought for one burial, ownership usually includes the right to add more burials. Therefore, any headstone erected after the first burial will show the details of the deceased on its upper part and have space left below for details about any subsequent burials. Thus, if a grave owner or relative were to unexpectedly find a headstone located deeper than previously seen, they might well be upset about it.

Also, on a general note regarding headstone stability, I can appreciate that adults and children may be at significant risk if they are standing or kneeling close to an unstable old-style tall heavy headstone. However, do modern style headstones which don't exceed say 3 feet in height really pose any significant risk if they become unstable? In other words, have some people developed a lucrative bandwagon of the sort bob shillabeer mentions and been able to carry out a lot of unnecessary and costly work on modern-style low height headstones? If so, it's another bandwagon to add to the one which exists regarding annual testing of all portable electrical appliances!
Zyggy  
#17 Posted : 18 May 2012 08:39:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

The topic of headstone safety is, quite rightly, highly emotive & I was heavily involved with dealing with the situation at a large MBC some years ago which culminated in a Public Enquiry.

My Council had an agreed inspection scheme, but following pressure from the HSE, i.e. escalate the programme or we will issue an Improvement Notice, things got out of hand & some cemeteries looked like vandals had been at work leading to genuine grief from many families.

Lessons were learnt & we managed to move on in a more controlled manner, liaising wherever possible with grave owners (just an aside, how many of us let the cemetery know when we move house & therefore make communication with grave owners very difficult?).

Given Graham's comments on the smaller, i.e. lawn type of headstones, we actually found that a higher percentage of these were unstable when compared to the larger monuments.

The smaller ones do in fact pose a hazard to elderly visitors who tend graves as they have a tendency to lean on them for support as they get up. We in fact had several serious injuries that happened in this way.

Zyggy
sutherlandb  
#18 Posted : 18 May 2012 13:41:05(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I should really make our works more clear. All the stones we carry out work on are of a certain age and lair holders have passed on with the lairs closed therefore no further interments. Any unsafe stones which are on lairs still in use, the lair holder is contacted and advised and given the option to arrange their own repairs or allow us to carry out the works.
Graham Bullough  
#19 Posted : 18 May 2012 13:50:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Some useful and interesting points from Zyggy, including confirmation of my impression about pressure on burial authority organisations from HSE. As regards my query about the degree of risk from lower height lawn type headstones, I hadn't really thought about elderly visitors using them for support when getting down or up in connection with tending the graves. Elderly people tend to have problems with their joints and balance, so Zyggy's mention of this is very apt. As with many situations in OS&H it's usually best to observe what actually happens at workplaces and to talk with people who manage and work in them.

Other aspects of this topic include the apparent fact that over the past 20 years or more, the incidence of vandalism in cemeteries and graveyards has increased. Also, in more recent years, the incidence of theft of lead and other metals from such places has soared. One vulnerable form of lead comprises letters and figures affixed to headstones in the past as an alternative to the engraving of details on them. In addition, some memorials are damaged by thieves looking for lead used as connectors for adjacent pieces of stone or (originally in molten form) to seal joints and protect ferrous ties from corrosion.

Also, some children/teenagers appear to regard cemeteries, usually unlocked and with negligible or limited daytime supervision, as variants of public parks and playgrounds. However, there is some hope that disrespectful attitudes might be tackled in the long term. This is because the work of voluntary 'friends of XXXXX cemetery" type groups includes developing a wide range of educational material plus guided walks, etc for schools in order to improve the perceptions and knowledge of young people about the cemeteries.
boblewis  
#20 Posted : 18 May 2012 23:11:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Try replacing a repaired 15th Century Alabaster ledger (tomb) stone back into a church chancel floor - Now that is a manual handling problem. Telehandler into the church door, wooden rollers up the aisle and then poles strops and 10 person to manoeuvre into the chancel through rood screen door. Finally drop into prepared holed in floor.

Getting it out was easy - the victorians broke it into pieces and left it in the corner!!! Ready for the masons to remove it last year.

Sometimes we get some good jobs!!!

Bob
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.