Rank: Forum user
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I work for a heating and ventilation maintenance company. We do work for various clients.
We have recently been asked to look after the heating at a primary school. They have for various information such as insurance, health and safety policy, CRB checks, RAMS etc. They have also asked for our safeguarding policy.
We do not have a safeguarding policy, I was under the impression that we did not need one.
Can anyone please offer any advise?
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Rank: Super forum user
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It is the school who have a 'safeguarding policy' - which should include how they protect children from incoming threat, such as contractor staff. There is no reason you should have such a thing. What you need from the client is what their rules are.
Generally there would be a clear physical segregation between contractors and the operational side of a school. However, heating & ventillation does mean there could be a need to visit the premises and be in various parts of the building whilst in use. In fact, if one company employee tended to be a regular visitor, this is exactly what the school need to consider carefully. One option is to always be escorted (by caretaker probably), there may also be a case for asking for such staff to have CRB checks (not feasible for most contractual situations - but segregation exists).
Ask for a meeting to discuss - at the very least they should provide their Safeguarding policy which you can then work up a method statement from. Their H&S adviser could be of help (or not!) see last para.
The guidance on safeguarding suggests it is inappropriate to ask for CRB checks unless there will be sustained, frequent and unsupervised contact with children. So to ask building contractors for this is silly. However the regular routine plumber on site may come into that category.
This is the usual over-the-top nonsense from schools /procurement. Find out what kind of school management applies - is it a 'council' run school (council are the employer) or what is called voluntarily controlled ie. the 'employer' is NOT the council but the board of governors. This may help in dealing with the school, and if it is Council managed - shame on them. Locally managed - maybe they are not very experienced in how to engage contractors.
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Rank: Guest
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Tony - schools and any other organisation working with children or vulnerable people must have a safeguarding policy. In it, it must state that contractors on site (or on their Preferred Contractors List if applicable) must be CRB checked. There are specific rules for one off emergency situations.
I have never asked a contractor for a safeguarding policy knowing full well they wouldn't have one. But you will need specific site rules for your men (in consultation with the school).
Incidently my employers pay for the CRB but not all are so generous.
I would therefore suggest you inform the school that in consultation with them and as part of their H&S Induction to your men specific site rules are drawn up e.g. where they can take tea breaks, the loo to use etc and restrictions on movement. Additionally it may be good to schedule boiler servicing during the school holidays when the children are not around.
Rich
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Guest
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aud wrote:
Find out what kind of school management applies - is it a 'council' run school (council are the employer) or what is called voluntarily controlled ie. the 'employer' is NOT the council but the board of governors. This may help in dealing with the school, and if it is Council managed - shame on them. Locally managed - maybe they are not very experienced in how to engage contractors.
Just a minor correction Aud. Re your reference to Voluntary Controlled Schools, you probably meant Voluntary Aided Schools. In VC schools the Council is the employer:
Direct Gov wrote: Voluntary-controlled schools are similar to voluntary aided schools, but are run by the local authority. As with community schools, the local authority employs the school's staff
Even if the Council is the employer, the nonsense about Safeguarding may still emanate from the School as they can engage contractors without involving the Council (local management and all that).
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with Rich777 for the most part. However, if you have employees going into situations where they may contact vulnerable groups then, in my opinion, you should have some policy/procedures that define how you manage that contact and provide information, training for your employees.
Tony you have a pm.
p48
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Rank: Super forum user
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I seriously doubt that setting yourself against the school management on the basis that "this is the usual over-the-top nonsense from schools /procurement" will get you anywhere.
The issue is not whether you need a CRB check or not but whether you have identified the very real risks to your company if you become involved in an incident regarding vulnerable groups.
All too often people focus on the control of the risk to the vulnerable persons, CRB check etc and forget the risk to their business and employees.
Simple information on what safeguarding actually is, rather than the Daily Mail version, and a procedure to follow if required would meet most situations.
p48
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Rank: Super forum user
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rich777 wrote:Tony - schools and any other organisation working with children or vulnerable people must have a safeguarding policy. In it, it must state that contractors on site (or on their Preferred Contractors List if applicable) must be CRB checked. Rich
Really? For a contractor on site for a couple of hours working in a plant room? I don't believe that was ever the intention. I understood that the system was intended to sageguard situations where adults were in a position to form relationships with children.
No wonder the system is so backed up!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Quote:
The guidance on safeguarding suggests it is inappropriate to ask for CRB checks unless there will be sustained, frequent and unsupervised contact with children. So to ask building contractors for this is silly. However the regular routine plumber on site may come into that category.
This matches my understanding.
Quote:
must have a safeguarding policy. In it, it must state that contractors on site (or on their Preferred Contractors List if applicable) must be CRB checked.
This I think is not true - the guidance has (relatively recently) changed to reduce the situations in which people require CRB checks, and I am fairly sure that it does not require contractors to have CRB checks.
However, it should be noted that the governing body may (ie, it is within its power to) adopt a different policy from that in the current official general guidance. It should have actively discussed this, though, and have a documented reason for doing so. So although it is not mandatory to require all contractors personnel to be CRB checked, and the guidance says it shouldn't require all contractors personnel to be CRB checked, the governing body may decide that it will impose that requirement (as part of the school's safeguarding policy).
However, the governing body, in reaching that decision, should have taken account of the fact that it is illegal to require a CRB check where a CRB check is not necessary. You can't CRB check people just because you feel like it - that contravenes the individual's rights.
All as I understand it - but I've only been dabbling in CRB checks recently, for a reason unrelated to my employment (ie, the above is an amateur's opinion).
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Rank: Super forum user
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Para 4.23 of the DfE document Safeguarding Children and Safer Recruitment in Education covers when a CRB check may not be required.
It says “visitors or contractors who come on site only to carry out emergency repairs OR (my caps) service equipment and who would not be expected to be left unsupervised on school or FE college premises”.
Quite clear and precise guidance covering the question of whether a CRB check is required or not. Thus it is often the case that the school does not wish to have to provide supervision every time for every contractor, ergo they ask for a check. OTT maybe but no different from lots of commercial company approaches to such variables.
However, as I said earlier, whether a CRB check is required or not is not the point of asking for a policy from a contractor.
As to the suitability of the curent systems I can only say that system of vetting and barring was about to be updated at the last change of government and was one of the first things put on hold....it is still as far as I know on hold! Hey ho.
P48
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Rank: Super forum user
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Barnaby - thanks for correction - classic lapse. How human.
And many such schools retain or utilise council policy anyway.
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Rank: Forum user
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