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buster74  
#1 Posted : 01 June 2012 10:29:17(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
buster74

Hi All, One of the sites in our company has recently purchased a hydrogen sulphide detector following a recent confined spaces assessment. (We may occasionally have wet manure in trenches). The manufacturer recommends a daily knock test using a small compressed gas cylinder of hydrogen sulphide to simulate gas exposure and check the unit detects and functions correctly. The manufacturer supplied the tube and fittings to complete this test, but cannot advise where we can purchase a hydrogen gas cylinder from to perform the knock test. Please can anyone advise where we could obtain such a cylinder and/or what you do in your company? Kind regards and thanks, Buster.
Jane Blunt  
#2 Posted : 01 June 2012 10:41:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

You can buy hydrogen sulphide from the major gas suppliers, such as BOC and Air Products (other suppliers are available!). You need to make a decision on the size of the gas bottle. Small gas bottles are easy to carry around. You will also need a regulator. Gas bottles are normally rented from the gas supplier, and you pay for the gas. When it is empty, the bottle is replaced with a new one, for which again you pay for the gas.
JJ Prendergast  
#3 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:00:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Given the toxicity of H2S and the low EH 40 exposure limits (15min ~ 10ppm / 14mg/m^3), I would try to avoid buing an H2S detector that requires you to use actual H2S to calibrate the detector. A quick Google search came up with this detector, which claims to auto calibrate http://www.professionale...gaxt-h/hydrogen-sulfide/ It obviously avoids the need to carry a bottle of H2S around in the back of the van.
Jane Blunt  
#4 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:36:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I would definitely not advocate carrying around a bottle of hydrogen sulphide in the back of a van, even in a van where the goods compartment is entirely isolated from the driver.
teh_boy  
#5 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:47:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

From my (out of date now) experience in sensors this worried me a bit... Note - the test is not a calibration just confirmation that it works, this could be done electronically on all our sensors (and that was 10 years ago before computers were invented :) ) The other thing we used to do is provide standard gases that gave false positives this way you could confirm operation without using a toxic gas. If we had to use a toxic gas our sensors were so sensitive that to show a reading the gas could be really dilute and not pose a health hazard anyway!!! I would do some homework on this one and see if you can buy a more advanced sensor that doesn't require the test, or find out if a dilute gas can be used. I'd also check the range of your sensor - will it detect the gas well below the WEL - I would want an alarm at about 10% of WEL, so that's 1ppm!!!!
teh_boy  
#6 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:51:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

p.s. The sensor JJ Prendergast is based on a fuel cell and of the type I sued to make - that's the sort I'd go for! p.p.s I agree with Jane - I wouldn't want a cylinder of H2S in my boot :)
teh_boy  
#7 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:52:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

teh_boy wrote:
p.s. The sensor JJ Prendergast is based on a fuel cell and of the type I sued to make - that's the sort I'd go for! p.p.s I agree with Jane - I wouldn't want a cylinder of H2S in my boot :)
I've forgotten how to type - it must be Friday - oh and whooo 4 day weekend...
Seabee81  
#8 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:57:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

I a gree with the above, there are hundreds of H2s detectors available that you don't need to have a H2s bottle to use and you only need to send them away periodically to calibrate. I have always found the MSA ones to be reliable but there are many others on the market
John M  
#9 Posted : 01 June 2012 11:57:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

JJP is on the button with his suggestion. I can support that - these are the ones we use - each tecnician/operator has his own strapped to his person. Standing orders! Jon
teh_boy  
#10 Posted : 01 June 2012 12:06:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

jay  
#11 Posted : 01 June 2012 13:20:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

As far as I am aware, the peoper term is "bump test". Some pro& cons of it at:- http://www.hsmemagazine....ticle.php?article_id=449 Ultimately , it is down to your assessment, manufacturers instructions regarding sensitivity and the life of the sensors and potential "poisons" for the sensors that should be a part of the assessment regarding frequency of bump-testing.
Macca  
#12 Posted : 01 June 2012 13:36:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Macca

Calibrated gas bottles are used across industry to calibrate and 'bump' test portable and transportable gas detection equipment. Most bump tests are carried out using a methane/air mixture for testing the serviceability of catalytic flammable gas detectors but should you wish to confirm the serviceability of your H2S detector, a standard test gas with an appropriate level of gas should be used (typically 25 or 40ppm H2S). Other members have commented on carrying this substance as it is obviously dangerous and I agree, all precautions should be taken to avoid inadvertant release, especially when kept in vans as a concentrated release at these values will cause coughing, eye irritation and perhaps nausea. Tests are usually carried out in a clean workshop which is well ventilated and although the stated values exceed EH40 LTEL/ STEL recommendations (5ppm & 10ppm respectivelly), there is insufficient content/ volume of air released during a controlled test to cause harm.
jay  
#13 Posted : 01 June 2012 14:49:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

A typical bump test station from a well know supplier of portable gas monitors, including personal gas monitors:- http://www.draeger.co.uk...r-Bump-Test-Station.aspx It claims that the Bump Test Station has no requirement of any power source and can thus be used at any location. The easy to use Bump Test Station checks whether the instrument in question is responding to a known concentration of gas. The gas provided by the Bump Test Station flows through the dust and water filter to the sensor(s) confirming correct functionality of the gas detector ensuring compliance with country-specific requirements and regulations, standards, recommendations, etc
boblewis  
#14 Posted : 01 June 2012 21:48:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

I am afraid that I am always a little concerned when relatively high toxicity gases have to be used on a regular basis. At the end of the day one only needs to know a yes no presence indicator and I remain to be convinvced that the old fashioned lead acetate papers are not the best solution. They are very specific and sensitive Bob
AndrewO  
#15 Posted : 02 June 2012 16:07:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AndrewO

1. Manufacturers of gas detectors recommend that detectors are tested (bump tested) prior to use. This is a physical verification that the sensor responds to the presence of the gas of interest. Even the examples (of gas detectors) suggested as alternatives in this thread, require bump testing. This includes "maintenance free" type disposable detectors. 2. Auto-calibration is not "gas free" calibration I wouldn't allow workers to enter hazardous environments without bump testing a gas detector. Andrew
Jane Blunt  
#16 Posted : 02 June 2012 22:39:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I don't have experience of hydrogen sulphide monitors. I do have personal experience of another type of gas monitor. I have observed them calibrated, with good batteries, but not reacting to the gas correctly. I would therefore ALWAYS check that it is reacting to its specific gas before using it, since my life might depend on it.
boblewis  
#17 Posted : 03 June 2012 13:38:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

This is exactly why I am concerned about the total urge to use electronic gadgets when the chemical reaction based detetctors are much more specific without the need to callibrate using the toxic substance itself. Bob
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