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JohnW  
#1 Posted : 05 June 2012 16:35:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 05 June 2012 21:44:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Several I know and possibly some I don't. However, I doubt the authorities will be interested in investigating the allegations - after all, who wants to be a party pooper?

What really annoys me is the time and money spent providing welfare facilities pursuant to the CDM Regs while others just ignore basic human rights!
Victor Meldrew  
#3 Posted : 06 June 2012 09:16:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

I think it would be wise not to believe all 'we' read in the newspapers - probably not as bad as made out. Remember the press/media always have an agenda/story & will get it by fair means or foul. After all the pageantry & bulling the Queens Jubilee up they now want to pour cold water over it, typical British Press. Besides I know the weather was not brilliant but it was hardly "freezing....."

I think some of those involved may have got some good from the experience, if only a better view...... because when I was a lad...........
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2012 13:27:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

If only half of that article is true, then it's still appalling.
alexmccreadie13  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2012 14:33:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13

The only serious problem here was someone was paid a lot of money to supply these people and they got very little if any.

They even got a NVQ in Security /Crowd Control?

Jeremy Vine radio broadcast at lunchtime covered this with many interesting facts being aired.

Many people who were classed as the poor souls were happy and well looked after, there will always be some unhappy ones.

Tell that to the D Day survivors as it was their anniversary today.

They waited around for over 2 hours and had a few bullets and shells thrown at them .

They took it gave it back and are the reason we are here today to moan about what?

Regards Alex
Victor Meldrew  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2012 15:38:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

Spot on Alex - my Father-in-Law got married on a 24 hour pass & never saw his good lady wife for four years - out in Burma. When I spoke to him about it he stated "well lad I came back, many didn't & the way I see it, it was a character building experience....." No Post Traumatic Stress Disorder there then.... oh & he was a Dunkirk Veteran, one of the last ones off. I think the moral here is; no matter how bad you think things are, there's always somebody worse off.
sean  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2012 15:45:16(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Those brave men and women who fought for Queen & Country did so to ensure freedom, treating unemployed people so badly in modern society is disgraceful and shameful this is exactly what our veterans fought to protect... Dignity, honour and freedom
Norfolkboy  
#8 Posted : 06 June 2012 15:49:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Norfolkboy

So - from now on - any health and safety or employment issues will be compared with Veterans from WW2.
Working at Height - we had no fall protection in ww2. Asbestos exposure - huh world war two veterans had to put up with flame throwers and Incendiary bombs.
A new low I think !!
Victor Meldrew  
#9 Posted : 06 June 2012 15:55:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

NORFOLKBOY - my statement was made in connection with those involved in the jubilee. Which has nothing to do with asbestos issues or WAH.
JohnW  
#10 Posted : 06 June 2012 16:10:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Victor Meldrew wrote:
"well lad I came back, many didn't & the way I see it, it was a character building experience....." No Post Traumatic Stress Disorder there then.....


Yes there was for many others ("always somebody worse off" as you said), it was just called something else, or often not acknowledged (i.e. not called anything). My uncle was a Burma POW for 3 years, he had a bit of difficulty re-adjusting to home life......

Victor Meldrew wrote:
I think the moral here is; no matter how bad you think things are, there's always somebody worse off.


But moving on from that.....

which H&S regulations have been breached? (post#1)


JohnW
alexmccreadie13  
#11 Posted : 06 June 2012 16:17:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13

John W
You are correct in asking this again .

But once again we proffessionals have gone of at a tangent without knowing the full facts.

As stated previously listening to people who were there and friends and families most feel they were treated properly and were happy.

As John Prescott said he wants an enquiry to find out where ther money given to these Security companies went if it did not go to the trainees.

And Sean yes liken everything to what our grandfathers and fathers went through and Health and Safety becomes more of a practical excercise rather than a breaching of regulations.

Ta Alex
Victor Meldrew  
#12 Posted : 06 June 2012 16:18:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

IMHO None. In the meantime I'll concentrate on those I'm trying to protect in a high risk industry.
Norfolkboy  
#13 Posted : 06 June 2012 16:18:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Norfolkboy

John

I ma not sure that any were broken. A complicated operation invovling hundreds of people and one bus delivered its stewards two hours only.
johnmurray  
#14 Posted : 07 June 2012 05:57:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

bob youel  
#15 Posted : 07 June 2012 07:21:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Further to the comment

'''As stated previously listening to people who were there and friends and families most feel they were treated properly and were happy'''

do we honestly think that any negative comments will be broadcast?
alexmccreadie13  
#16 Posted : 07 June 2012 09:37:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13

Sorry Bob but yes we do. There was further interviews from both sides on the West Countryt News last night both for and against.

I dont we should believe everything we see or hear and jump to conclusions about it.

After listening and watching these interviews from the trainees I know what my OPINION is.

Again another thread that has moved away from the initial question.

Regards Alex
johnmurray  
#17 Posted : 07 June 2012 10:12:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Any breaches.
Well.
The people concerned are not unemployed, they are employees of the DfWP.
They are assessed for tax, and they pay a NI contribution (credited with).
Their "trainer" is required to work within existing legislation.
RayRapp  
#18 Posted : 07 June 2012 10:31:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

How accurate the newspaper reports are it is difficult to say. However, this may have been an isolated incident and affecting only a few. Nevertheless people expect to be treated reasonably well by an employer and lest we forget we are h&s practitioners who are supposed to be concerned about people's health, safety and welfare.

As for the breach in legislation - may I draw your attention to: 'Employers have a general duty under Section 2 of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare of their employees at work.'

'Workplace health, safety and welfare. Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992: ‘Work’ means work as an employee or self-employed person, and also:
(a) work experience on certain training schemes (Health and Safety (Training for Employment) Regulations 1990 No 138 regulation 3);'

'At temporary work sites the requirements of these Regulations for sanitary conveniences, washing facilities, drinking water, clothing accommodation, changing facilities and facilities for rest and eating meals (regulations 20-25) apply ‘so far as is reasonably practicable’. Temporary work sites include:
(a) work sites used only infrequently or for short periods; and…'

JohnW  
#19 Posted : 07 June 2012 11:42:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Thank you Ray. It took 17 responses on the thread before we got a considered response.

'Temporary work sites' are often a problem with regard to welfare provision. I still inspect a small building site that removed their portakabin to save money and they still refuse to provide a sink and a table to eat at, even though it is reasonably practicable to provide. Equally in the case of the pageant stewards, not much effort/money was needed to provide better conditions of work or overnight accommodation.

How different when I have to travel afar for an appointment. I can stay in a Hoiday Inn Express, and charge the £65 on expenses......
RayRapp  
#20 Posted : 07 June 2012 14:31:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

'Equally in the case of the pageant stewards, not much effort/money was needed to provide better conditions of work or overnight accommodation.'

John, agreed. Given that these wretched souls were paid either nothing or next to nothing, some decent welfare provisions is not a lot to ask.
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