Rank: New forum user 
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I was wondering if someone could give me clarification on the use of diesel forklifts inside a warehouse. I am receiving complaints from employees about diesel fumes as management have now asked for all roller shutters to remain closed when not in use. I believe there is now insufficient ventilation inside the warehouse.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks for the reply lead belly I have already read this guidance document and what I got from it was that it seems to be ok as long as there is sufficient ventilation. I do not think that this is the case now as doors are to be kept closed when not in use. I think that the only options are replacing forklifts with electric or installing a ventalation system.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Matt
I have recently used a carbon dioxide monitor to assess the risks to employees in an engine testing bay. HSG187 recommends monitoring CO2 as first step in assessing the risk from DEEE. Perhaps it is something you should try to see the effect of keeping the doors closed.
LB
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would have though carbon monoxide (CO) would be more of an issue?
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Rank: Super forum user
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The main problem is not CO, nor CO2, but unburnt hydrocarbons and particulates.
Hopefully you have no employees with existing respiratory complants, although you soon will have.
So you either retrofit the lift trucks with decent exhaust filters (expensive, short-lived and useless) or change from diesel to electric or propane. Installing ventilation systems to combat diesel exhaust problems is likely to be expensive and of limited value, goven that the extraction is remote from the pollution source.
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Rank: Forum user
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To reiterate what johnmurray said - I worked for an organisation where an employee developed Occupational Asthma from the build up of PAH particulate. Opening the shutter doors installed in the workshop just disturbed the particulate making it airborne.
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Rank: Super forum user
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HSE is not saying that CO2 is the most hazardous component of DEEE but that it can be used as a surrogate to determine whether there might be a problem.
As Matt's colleagues are complaining about the emissions, there is a problem in my view, which is unlikely to go away until something is done about it.
I do not think that diesel FLTs are suitable for extensive use indoors and HSE are being mealy mouthed about it only because they know that such use is widespread.
As DEEE is a suspected carcinogen (although recent research has indicated that modern diesel engines are less of a problem in this regard), prevention of exposure must be considered first.
LB
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Rank: Super forum user
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I tend not to agree that DEEE are not a problem, or are a lesser problem in modern times.
Lift truck engines are not EU IV or anything even near. They are usually poorly maintained, and suffer because of that.
Managers do not place a high degree of interest on engine maintenance, the fuel is usually rebated and cheap(er).
I have looked for, and not found, information regarding the emissions from lift truck diesel engines in the post-sulphur 5% renewable fuel. One thing is sure, comparing lift truck emissions to highly regulated road vehicle emissions is useless.
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Rank: Super forum user
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We should also remember that diesel exhaust contains significant Nitrogen oxides which are highly irritant and thus lead to coughing and thence greater inhalation of exhaust fumes. I would find it difficult to condone the regular use of diesel engines in a warehouse without routine continuous monitoring of the atmosphere and/or active exhaust ventilation systems in place.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Super forum user
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How about looking into replacing the Diesel units with electrical ones for use around people and keep the dirty stuff for outside use?
Sort of, Identify the hazard and minimize the risk.
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks to everyone for all there helpful info. To explain my position a bit further I had asked as part of my 2009 risk assessment process that the diesel forklifts be replaced with electric but was told that our current supplier could not provide this and it would be costly to move (forklifts are leased , serviced four times a year). What I don't think is helpful is zimmys comment of identify the hazard and Reduce the risk!! I know how to do my job, all I wanted was people's feedback as the HSE are a bit vague and now that employees are complaining I think it's time to apply some pressure. And for the record, what you said would eliminate the risk!!
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Rank: New forum user
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I also want to state that I agree with lead belly in that the HSE will not give definitive advice as the problem of forklifts in the warehousing sector is widespread. Any warehouse I've ever been in operates diesel.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You can't really ignore complaints, not in this litigation-loving culture [sic]
One case of workplace asthma to a unionised employee and you may well be knee-deep in well-cash-backed solicitors.
Then there is the other non-employee problem that diesel powered lift trucks have when they are operated in a closed environment....they coat everything in a fine film of partially burnt and unburnt fuel...and soot.
I suppose you haven't organised any air-quality tests yet....something you really should not ignore following complaints....some employees tend to get on the 'phone and organise tests themselves, via the HSE.
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks John for the helpful advice, I am going to arrange to have air quality tests carried out as more and more employees are complaining. As I have said in previous posts I have made a number of recommendations to my current employers in the past which they have chosen to ignore, they don't like a gun to be held to their head, I have actually gotten to the point were I am looking for alternative employment!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Dear Mattc
I'm not saying you don't know your job for an instant. But for what it's worth...if you need to .. Never mind...You seem to know how to do the job and influence people all on your own.
By the way, sorry if I missed the bit about you trying to change the units in the first instance
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ops..you didn't mention that you had tried this avenue of change etc. And for the record...I said minimise the risk as there would be gases entering the building from the use of diesel units when roller doors are open etc.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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It may make little practical difference at this stage but IARC have today announced that they consider DEEE as a definite human carcinogen. They have also rated petrol exhaust emission as a possilbe human carcinogen.
LB
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Rank: Super forum user
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leadbelly wrote:It may make little practical difference at this stage but IARC have today announced that they consider DEEE as a definite human carcinogen.
Hmmm, that could explain why there are unexplained lung cancers in non-smokers. We all follow diesel cars while driving......
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Rank: Super forum user
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Like i said... remove the hazard and .... whoosh as if by magic...
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnW wrote:
Hmmm, that could explain why there are unexplained lung cancers in non-smokers. We all follow diesel cars while driving......
Yeesssss... We all follow trucks...and buses.....very large engines, high fuel consumption, high[er] emissions.... Now, since a majority of vehicles on the road would seem to be in business use during the daytime....what are you going to do about their carcinogenic emissions ? If you operate trucks, you cannot very well ignore it.... Oh, sorry....
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