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LATCHY  
#1 Posted : 11 June 2012 16:18:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

Can someone please explain open and closed systems in regard to solar radiation and nutrients/matter in layman's terms,Thank you.
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 11 June 2012 22:36:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Due you mean the "Oxygen Cycle" in relation to plants/photosynthesis etc?
LATCHY  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2012 06:21:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

ron hunter wrote:
Due you mean the "Oxygen Cycle" in relation to plants/photosynthesis etc?
That is a good description another could be, sulphates formed from the oceans surface act as condensation nuclei for water vapour in the atmosphere, allowing the formation of clouds, is this called a closed system?
Jane Blunt  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2012 07:58:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

LATCHY wrote:
That is a good description another could be, sulphates formed from the oceans surface act as condensation nuclei for water vapour in the atmosphere, allowing the formation of clouds, is this called a closed system?
Surely that is a system in the hydrosphere? Latchy, it would be helpful to give a little more explanation behind your question. You are more likely to get a correct answer. Technical terms, such as 'open', and 'closed' do not necessarily have a single definition.
Kate  
#5 Posted : 12 June 2012 08:09:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

A closed system in one that matter/energy (of whatever kinds you are considering) doesn't leave or enter, an open one is one that it does. Energy is constantly entering the Earth's atmosphere from the Sun, and the atmosphere, the oceans and the land are constantly exchanging energy and matter. So to say whether something is a closed system you need to identify the extent of that system and what it is that is being transferred within it but not into or out of it.
LATCHY  
#6 Posted : 12 June 2012 08:32:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

Jane Blunt wrote:
LATCHY wrote:
That is a good description another could be, sulphates formed from the oceans surface act as condensation nuclei for water vapour in the atmosphere, allowing the formation of clouds, is this called a closed system?
Surely that is a system in the hydrosphere? Latchy, it would be helpful to give a little more explanation behind your question. You are more likely to get a correct answer. Technical terms, such as 'open', and 'closed' do not necessarily have a single definition.
The question= the biosphere can be seen as an open system when in comes solar radiation but closed when it comes to matter/nutirents, comment wether organisations are open or closed systems, why and how?
Jane Blunt  
#7 Posted : 12 June 2012 08:47:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Kate has given you the definition you need. You need to consider what the boundary of your system is and look at what crosses it (in which aspect it is open) and what does not (in which aspect it is closed). As for the question posed: the biosphere can be seen as an open system when in comes solar radiation I would agree with this but closed when it comes to matter/nutirents, I would disagree with this as the biosphere draws on the hydrosphere, lithosphere and atmosphere for the nutrients, as well as itself. If you took the earth as the system I would agree with this statement. comment wether organisations are open or closed systems, why and how? Over to you! What sort of organisations, what aspects of their function?
LATCHY  
#8 Posted : 12 June 2012 08:58:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

Jane Blunt wrote:
Kate has given you the definition you need. You need to consider what the boundary of your system is and look at what crosses it (in which aspect it is open) and what does not (in which aspect it is closed). As for the question posed: the biosphere can be seen as an open system when in comes solar radiation I would agree with this but closed when it comes to matter/nutirents, I would disagree with this as the biosphere draws on the hydrosphere, lithosphere and atmosphere for the nutrients, as well as itself. If you took the earth as the system I would agree with this statement. comment wether organisations are open or closed systems, why and how? Over to you! What sort of organisations, what aspects of their function?
Shall we say fracking drilling ,extracting,methane release
Kate  
#9 Posted : 12 June 2012 09:07:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

But those are processes, not systems or organisations. The question as you've put it can't be answered. First you need to define the stuff that is moving around, and the system that it is moving around in, and then identify the processes that move it and say whether or not those processes take it in or out as well as moving it around inside.
Kate  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2012 09:12:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

If I was asked the question of whether organisations are open or closed systems I would see it as metaphorical, not referring to the flow of physical energy and matter but to the flows of money, people, information and so on, and whether they were internal or external to the organisation.
Jane Blunt  
#11 Posted : 12 June 2012 09:23:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Latchy - Kate and I are unable to help effectively as we lack the necessary context. I do feel that you have enough information to be able to answer the question, given that only you know the actual context. As Kate says, the bit about 'fracking drilling ,extracting,methane release' is impossible to answer.
LATCHY  
#12 Posted : 12 June 2012 09:35:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

Jane Blunt wrote:
Latchy - Kate and I are unable to help effectively as we lack the necessary context. I do feel that you have enough information to be able to answer the question, given that only you know the actual context. As Kate says, the bit about 'fracking drilling ,extracting,methane release' is impossible to answer.
Thank you for your time, the second part of the task is using a natural cycle of yor own choice, identify how an organisation may interact with and impact that cycle.
Yossarian  
#13 Posted : 12 June 2012 12:32:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Jane Blunt wrote:
...As for the question posed: the biosphere can be seen as an open system when in comes solar radiation I would agree with this but closed when it comes to matter/nutirents, I would disagree with this as the biosphere draws on the hydrosphere, lithosphere and atmosphere for the nutrients, as well as itself. If you took the earth as the system I would agree with this statement.
Sorry to be a pedant Jane, but surely meteorites and their potential to act as a food source for earth bound bacteria render the earth an open system with regards to matter and nutrients? And we've not even covered the Panspermia Hypothesis yet. (Well it makes a change from DSE assessments)
Jane Blunt  
#14 Posted : 12 June 2012 12:47:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Yossarian wrote:
Sorry to be a pedant Jane, but surely meteorites and their potential to act as a food source for earth bound bacteria render the earth an open system with regards to matter and nutrients? And we've not even covered the Panspermia Hypothesis yet. (Well it makes a change from DSE assessments)
You have a point, although I guess the total mass arriving does not amount to much. If we're going to be real pedants, hydrogen is leaving the earth, too, along with helium (although the latter is of no nutritional value).
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