Hi, I work for a company that has about 80 people with CSCS cards, from the drawing office, estimators, to draughtsmen and also the site guys. Over the years, we've taken on people to work on site who don't have any qualifications or CSCS cards, so we've (reluctantly) had to get them a general 'Construction Site Operative' card, which is basic skills only. I realise in an ideal world, they should all have NVQ's etc, and all have cards that match up with their job titles, but unfortunately at this moment, we dont live in an ideal world, and due to cost and time restraints for companies in the construction industry, NVQs just havent been happening for now, and we, as well as the Main Contractors, have been happy enough in them having a CSCS card. This has resulted in some operatives having an Industry Accreditation CSCS card for occupations such as "Welder" and "Installer", whilst some only have the CSO card. It appears that earlier this week during a site induction, a Contractor asked what profession the operative was, and on telling him, they looked at his card and said he couldnt do the job as he only had a CSO card. Its a one-off, we think, and when workload/profits etc improve then we are looking at obtaining NVQs for all our guys, but until then we are worried that this could become the norm and there may be instances where some, or most, of our operatives will need to leave site as they dont have the CORRECT CSCS card. Has anyone else come across this, and do we think it could become the norm in future? I look forward to hearing from you.

We've had a few interesting debates on this Forum about this topic over the last few years. For me, there's something wrong when a highly skilled and proficient craftsman/journeyman can't get on Site because he has "the wrong card". Got to see things from the perspective of the person on-site though. He doesn't know your operative. Bear in mind too the rogue contractors who try to pull a fast one by not providing appropriate people to erect scaffold etc. You don't say what trade/experience your bod has.

Sort this out at contract stage Unfortunately this area was and probably still is managed / run by what can be seen as traditional building trade types/ enterprises with the HSE's backing [backing in some way] and I have been on construction jobs where 1000's of people were employed yet no joiner, brickie, plasterer or house bashing electricians and similar were present yet all card systems are/were geared for these types On the other hand an experienced trades person from a 'shop' background needs inducting into construction ways of working Sorry but I do not accept the 'we cannot afford it' argument as I have heard this since speak the 60's irrespective of boom times and its hogwash in my view and experience

At the end of the day if a PC assesses a contractor as competent to work on his site then he should allow each contractor to assess the competence of their own workforce. If the PC does not trust them to do so then he clearly knows he has not appointed a competent contractor. The real contracting world may often have specialist subcontractors who are larger and more cash rich than many a PC. They simply are there for specific works not the whole build. If you think about M&E particularly you can often see this. If CDM was undertaken properly then there would be no need for CSCS cards. Sorry but then many PCs will be unhappy because they will not simply have to tick a box for competent wrt H&S and CDM. Maybe it is only a quirk that CDM is under the HSE simply because the Govt needed an enforcer to load it onto. In theory would not any technical enforcer be able enforce all but part 4 of the regulations. Competence is about doing a job properly and if a PC cannot competently assess the competence of his subcontractors then even at a basic level he himself is not competent to act as a PC. Bob

Excellent post Alex. Jon

If you do need an NVQ and you pay a levy to the ECITB, don't forget you can claim grants from them. They will give grants to pay for Steel Erecting and many similar trades or even such courses as NEBOSH NGC. If they do not directly advertise they fund a course in there brochure on on the website, there is the option to apply through the Regional Discretionary Grant route. We've had quite a few SMSTS' funded through the ECITB RDG, Plant Operator NVQ's and AP NVQ's for CPCS cards. The ECITB Team here in South Wales are superb in their attitude towards training and up skillijg the workforce. I should imagine it is the same across all regions. You are missing a trick if you pay a levy and are not chasing them for funding.

And.... a cscs card is a start. As least the holder has a fighting chance.

Dear Bob The first line reads... 'should' be placed on etc. The word 'should' is the main word here. The second line is true. The third line is correct at the time of going to press. The fourth sounds just about right. Point of fact here is this. When I was undergoing my NEBOSH certs (Gen and Construction) the text book we were working from detailed a complete load of rubbish on electrical matters. As do the reprinted ones. For the exam I had to write the incorrect answers in order to get the distinction in both certs. So yes Bob. We are on different worlds but thanks for that anyway. I'm all for training and all against pomposity in all its forms.