Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Ade  
#1 Posted : 23 July 2012 23:32:27(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ade

does anyone know what analysis and/or company that can determine the maximum design overpressure of a blast wall. Initial explosion assessment indicates that the blast wall might be exposed to overpressures of about 150 mbar but there is no record of the design data for the blast wall
Jane Blunt  
#2 Posted : 24 July 2012 08:16:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Ade, Are you sure your figures are correct? 150 millibar, as written, is a tiny pressure.
JJ Prendergast  
#3 Posted : 24 July 2012 08:21:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Try some of engineering/safety consultancies in Aberdeen, they will either use DNV PHAST software and/or BP Cirrius software. If there is no design data for the wall, I would think a site visit will be required to inspect the wall and make an educated guess of its construction and possible design rating. Just Google 'consequence modelling' and you should get some consultancy names. This type of work doesn't come cheap!! The software is expensive and so are the people.
JJ Prendergast  
#4 Posted : 24 July 2012 08:26:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

150mbar is more than enough to do damage to structures, given the large surface area of buildings / walls etc Structural element Typical failure pressure (mbarg) Glass windows 20-70 Room doors 20-30 Light partition walls 20-50 50 mm thick breeze block walls 40-50 Unstrained brick walls 70-150
Jane Blunt  
#5 Posted : 24 July 2012 08:41:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

JJ P That's very interesting. I am surprised that a breeze block wall does not perform significantly better than a glass window! What does 'unstrained' mean in this context? Our poster is only working at the upper end of this category.
JJ Prendergast  
#6 Posted : 24 July 2012 09:18:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

I'm not sure what unstrained means in this context. Maybe a free standing wall, with no additional loading or supporting bracing/buttress? Various methodologies are available for calculating blast effect - TNO method, Multi energy method. Strehlow, Tang & Baker are the usual authors quoted when undertaking blast analysis. Blast effects are also influenced by how confined and congested a work area is. Lots of pipework etc increase the likely over pressure and hence possible damage.
Melrose80086  
#7 Posted : 24 July 2012 09:50:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Melrose80086

Have pm'd you details of a company that might be able to help...
Ade  
#8 Posted : 24 July 2012 19:22:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ade

Thanks everyone for your reply. The original explosion assessment was done with DNV PHAST Multi Explosion Model. This gave a worst case scenario of 150 mbar overpressure within a radius of 56metres. The blast wall between the control room and the gas turbine hall where there is a risk of explosion due to the congestion is within this 56 metre radius. Hence, the need to conduct some analysis on this blast wall to ascertain the maximum overpressure it can withstand. There is no record of the design data for the blast wall as it was installed in 1979.
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 24 July 2012 22:46:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

The age of the wall also gives rise to added complexity. Most plants have a service life around 20 - 25 years so it is likely past its design life. It may indeed be cheaper following cost benefit analysis with the likelihood of occurrence known and the consequences of that failure; Bob
boblewis  
#10 Posted : 24 July 2012 22:48:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

when oh when can we edit Missed off to reinforce or rebuild the wall. Bob
bleve  
#11 Posted : 25 July 2012 10:23:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

May be easier to consider explosion relief.
bleve  
#12 Posted : 25 July 2012 10:37:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Would be interesting to know the source of release or scenarios considered as a part of your assessment.
JJ Prendergast  
#13 Posted : 25 July 2012 10:49:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

I would guess the source of release would be from the fuel gas supply to the gas turbine. The gas turbine is possibly in its own enclosure. This sounds like some sort of CHP power station set up.
bleve  
#14 Posted : 25 July 2012 11:01:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

JJ Prendergast wrote:
I would guess the source of release would be from the fuel gas supply to the gas turbine. The gas turbine is possibly in its own enclosure. This sounds like some sort of CHP power station set up.
Was thinking more along the lines of was this an assessment considering DSEAR or COMAH. Release due to failure at flange or guillotine rupture from a pipe. Frequency of overpressure scenario may be tolerable and blast wall may not be required depending on scenario. If enclosure is provided, the design should preclude an explosive atmosphere. Similarly, what levels of ventilation are provided within the turbine hall if enclosures are not provided. Is LEL detection provided so as to shut off gas supply and possibly ramp up ventilation in the event of release. As we do not know the details involved, it is difficult to comment, as previously stated, there are other counter measures available and pressure resistant design may not be the most suitable.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.