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johnfitz  
#1 Posted : 27 July 2012 09:19:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnfitz

I have had a guy come to me with an injury that he is telling me occurred over six days ago at work but he hasn't reported it until now. There are no witnesses to this alleged incident or evidence to suggest that it did actually occur whist at work. My question is this: Because of the delay in the reporting of the incident to myself would you now allow this incident to be recorded in the accident book, would you include it in your accident stats, is there a time limit for the reporting of incidents and would you complete an accident/incident report/investigation?
B.Bruce  
#2 Posted : 27 July 2012 09:41:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

Hi John,

As you cant disprove his version I would record it. I would also carry out a thorough investigation to establish the facts - this might be helpful should he put in a claim for his injuries, it may also uncover the reason why he didnt report it.

Regarding the other issues - what does your Accident/Incident Reporting Procedure state?

Given that he failed to report it for six days a disciplinary investigation may appropriate to establish why it took him so long to report it.
TonySmith  
#3 Posted : 27 July 2012 10:24:00(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
TonySmith

Hi John,
I would agree with B.Bruce, record the alleged accident and complete a full investigation. If there is a risk it would go to a personal injury claim ensure you clearly state in the investigation documentation that the injured Person (IP) failed to notify the company at the time of the alleged incident, failed to follow company procedures (if the IP has) and what disciplinary measures you have taken with the IP, if any. This approach helps defend claims if they materialise. Bearing in mind the length of time available to submit a claim it is easy to forget the circumstances around an alleged injury and the failings of the IP in the case.
johnfitz  
#4 Posted : 27 July 2012 11:36:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnfitz

Thanks Gents. However what if I then include this incident on our stats that we submit to our clients and potential clients with tenders and pre-quals which then has an affect on our incident rates which they demand to see. I think you are both quite correct that the incident should be fully investigated etc but I am a bit weary of including it on our stats when there is no real evidence to back the incident up. Any thoughts?
Jake  
#5 Posted : 27 July 2012 11:42:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

johnfitz wrote:
Any thoughts?


Look at changing the way accident statistics are collected, analysed and reported within the business and the incentives that are attributed to these?

The decision to include / report an accident / RIDDOR (if the case may be) should be down to the circumstances and nothing to do with moulding business statistics!

I.e. the reporting of such incidents should be seen as a positive. Repeat incidents, outstanding actions, lack of updated risk assessments etc should be seen as a negative.

Your question is similar to those discussions about the implications of "zero harm" initiatives and "xxx days worked without an accident / RIDDOR" programmes.

Geoff 1954  
#6 Posted : 27 July 2012 13:50:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Geoff 1954

Whilst I accept that the accident was reported late and some form of disciplinary process needs to be gone through if you accept that the accident occured then surely you cannot pick and chose as to wether it forms part of your statistics or not.

On the investigation process we use we record wether the accident was reported at the time of the event and if it wasn't when was it reported and why was it reported late.

Geoff
sean  
#7 Posted : 27 July 2012 13:59:05(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

This topic was discussed not long ago:-

http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...spx?g=posts&t=105716
Bob Shillabeer  
#8 Posted : 27 July 2012 14:17:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

John, why did he fail to report the accident, was he off work because of it or did he continue to work and reported it six days after as an after thought? I don't think you have much to worry about from a claim point of view as it appears the accident was so minor that he felt no urge to report it until perhaps prompted by someone else. You say there are no witnesses so you can only look at the workplace for obvious problems, if you find none you can simply record the facts and then sit back and wait. Don't worry though the case if one is put forward will probably be so weak it will soon be dismissed. Why people send you off running in all directions is to be honest beyond me and I worked in an industry that operated very strict investigative rules following accidents and rarely had any claims to worry about as the evidence against the company were almost nonexistent.
John J  
#9 Posted : 27 July 2012 14:46:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

johnfitz wrote:
I have had a guy come to me with an injury that he is telling me occurred over six days ago at work but he hasn't reported it until now. There are no witnesses to this alleged incident or evidence to suggest that it did actually occur whist at work. My question is this: Because of the delay in the reporting of the incident to myself would you now allow this incident to be recorded in the accident book, would you include it in your accident stats, is there a time limit for the reporting of incidents and would you complete an accident/incident report/investigation?


John,

You have to make the accident book available to your employee nut you should comment on it whether you accept it or not. If you do it goes on your stats, if not it doesn't. hichever way the starting point of your investigation will be the (alleged) accident entry.
John J  
#10 Posted : 27 July 2012 14:47:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Should be 'but' not nut.
aland76  
#11 Posted : 27 July 2012 16:55:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

Got to say this thread has really made me think about accident reporting; I'm in the process of developing our management / site procedures, and because of these recent threads i've just amended our accident reporting procedure to (rightly or wrongly) put the onus on the IP to report the injury at the earliest opportunity, stating:

"Failure to report any accident at work within a reasonable time is classified as a disciplinary offence, as delaying in reporting an accident may leave a hazard or unsafe condition with which other personnel may become injured (as per the employees duty under “Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1974”)”

As i'm still relatively new to the H&S realm would you more experienced folks deem this to be reasonable?

And johnfitz, sorry for the threadjacking, but also cheers for making me think a bit more about accident reporting ;)

Alan

Canopener  
#12 Posted : 28 July 2012 15:51:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

The issue of 'late' reporting has been discussed here many times. It happens, and it happens for a number of reasons, one of those being that an injury that was at first thought to be very minor has subsequently become more serious, perhaps requiring time off work. On the other hand some late reporting is for more 'dubious' reasons. Whatever; it happens. I 'allow' late reporting but make a point of emphasising the date of the report and the alleged date of the injury. I don't lose a lot of sleep over it!

Alan, you are likely to get a number of different views. If you are new to the job then you need to gain trust and credibility. Over time you will find that the job isn't just about blind adherence to the law, in fact it could be argued that it isn't about that at all (do I hear a sharp intake of breath and cries of horror?). I don't see any problem with trying to 'motivate' staff to report accidents and near misses etc as they happen in order to deal with any unsafe condition, underlying cause etc and hopefully prevent similar accidents or injuries happening to others but I personally wouldn't go down the route of 'threatening' disciplinary action for a failure to do so. IMVHO, over use of the 'disciplinary card' can in our work can serve to alienate your employees. I suggest you emphasise the positive benefits rather than the negative pitfalls!

Despite this, you will still likely get some late reporting. Don't beat people with a stick over it though.

I accept that others may disagree on such an approach.
aland76  
#13 Posted : 30 July 2012 08:18:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

Hi Canopener

Completely understand where you are coming from, and I am taking the softly-softly approach with most things as I learn the process, learn the finer details of H&S, and most importantly learn the people. But what I am aiming for is to cover the company in the event of any 'potentially spurious claims'. I'll have a think on the wording and soften it a bit :)

As for people disagreeing, I'm finding there are a lot of differing opinions on this forum, but I'm finding this a very useful tool as people approach every issue from different angles, it helps me put perspective on things :)

Al
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