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stonecold  
#1 Posted : 01 August 2012 12:58:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Hi Would anyone know of any firm guidance (preferably from the HSE) relating to the external storage of pallets. I know you have to keep pallets away from a building, incase they catch fire. I also know the bigger the pallet stack the further away they should be from the building, but ive been trying to find some specific guidance that gives actual safe distances. The only thing I can find is various guidance documents from insurers, which do infact quote safe distances but they all seem to vary slightly.. Cant find anything from the HSE though...anyone help?
Lawlee45239  
#2 Posted : 01 August 2012 13:13:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

By pallet stacking so you mean on a large scale?? Whst is the premises in question? What is the size/ weight/ load capacily of the pallets?? These will all play a role in your determining safe distance/ stacking. Are hte pallets unloaded? As in, is it a pallet or bricks or just an empty pallets stacked?? Just seen this, dont know if it helps; http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis2.pdf Makes reference to external storge = 3:1 takings into account wind, whereas internal its 4:1
stonecold  
#3 Posted : 01 August 2012 13:16:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

large buidling/ warehouse/ typical goods yard. Empty euro pallets, typical standard size 1200 x 800 that you would find in most. maxiumum external storage of between 100 to 200 pallets (ish)
stonecold  
#4 Posted : 01 August 2012 13:21:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

for info, our pallets are 10 metres away from the building if the stack is 50 to 200 pallets...as the side of our building is metal cladding. Im happy they are safe. I just wanted some firm guidance as I also inspect other sites so just wanted something to work from, and also have something. Like I mentioned I have a few tables realting to safe distances from several insurers e.g Allianz, but I always prefer to use HSE guidance if i can find it
smitch  
#5 Posted : 01 August 2012 13:29:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

stonecold Not aware of any HSE guidance; but your insurers may well be of some assistance; I have in the past had dealings with insurers who have stipulated no closer than anything between 3 to 10 metres from any building for pallets, waste skips etc. Unless you have a huge site then this may not be possible, so the best you can aim for is as far from buildings as is reasonably practicable. If you need pallets in close proximity to a building then perhaps you could ensure that they are brought inside when premises are unoccupied (granted that space restraints may be a factor); and of course if you have one large central storage location for pallets and by nature of the site, then this is close to a building then your options are limited. Possibly keeping stock to the lowest possible level may be something you could look into (this may well incur additional delivery costs, if you need more frequent/smaller deliveries). Site security in out of office hours (locked gates, palisade fencing, security personnel/patrols etc.) can also assist in reducing the likelihood of arson. HTH smitch
Lawlee45239  
#6 Posted : 01 August 2012 13:42:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

stonecold wrote:
for info, our pallets are 10 metres away from the building if the stack is 50 to 200 pallets...as the side of our building is metal cladding. Im happy they are safe. I just wanted some firm guidance as I also inspect other sites so just wanted something to work from, and also have something. Like I mentioned I have a few tables realting to safe distances from several insurers e.g Allianz, but I always prefer to use HSE guidance if i can find it
If there is a fire relating to the pallets, it will come down to insurance too, so go by what they say too. Did that HSE guidance note help any bit??
stonecold  
#7 Posted : 01 August 2012 13:45:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Yes thanks
Jake  
#8 Posted : 01 August 2012 14:40:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

FYI our insurers require external pallet stacks to be at least 6m clear of the warehouse.
SBH  
#9 Posted : 01 August 2012 14:54:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

I concur - 6 metres SBH
Jeff Watt  
#10 Posted : 01 August 2012 23:40:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jeff Watt

Stonecold Had similar problems in the past and did not find a definite answer. Knocking out nearly 2 million cans of beer a day tends to mean there is a lot of dry goods stored inside, shrink wrap, pallets, cartons, glue, plastics. You are probably aware that if your insurers could get you to store the pallets on the moon it would be too close and have too much oxygen for their liking. It is their business to make money from you not burning yourself down and they will actively drive down that property risk regardless of your operational needs. Jeff
Graham Bullough  
#11 Posted : 02 August 2012 13:21:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

smitch at #5 rightly mentions site security. If kids, teenagers or any other intruders can access a site without much difficulty out of hours, there's a foreseeable risk that they can take pallets from a stack and use them as improvised climbing aids and/or set fire to them, fairly irrespective of how far the stack is from building/s. The same applies to anything else which is combustible and can be set alight with relative ease using matches/lighters and a smallish amount of combustible kindling such as paper, cardboard or plastic. Therefore, measures to exclude/deter intruders are important. Another relevant factor in how near pallets (or other combustible items) can be stacked to a building is surely the composition of the sides and roof of the building facing the stack. Thus, a stack can be located notably nearer to a continuous wall of brick, stone or concrete than it could to a wall of similar construction which incorporates any windows, doors, vents or other 'perforations' with little resistance against fire. In addition, the dimensions and volumes of actual or proposed stacks should be considered. Thus, each location needs to be assessed with regard to the building/s and stacks involved. This might explain the apparent dearth of general advice about how far outdoor pallet stacks should be from buildings. Also, why the emphasis on advice from HSE? In the event of a fire involving a stack, the local fire service would normally be involved in putting it out, so why not seek advice from its people? Fire services are surely experts regarding measures to prevent/minimise fires as well as to extinguish them.
stevie40  
#12 Posted : 02 August 2012 16:22:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

All - you really need to be guided by your insurers on this one since most commercial policies carry a condition or warranty that combustible materials are stored a minimum distance from the building line. One insurer I worked for used 6m, another used 10m - that is down to their experience with Arson claims. Failure to comply will result in an arson claim being turned down. ABI statistics show 45% of commercial fires are arson related and the numbers show a rising trend. Info here - http://www.abi.org.uk/Me...hes_new_arson_study.aspx The separation distances were arrived at following research by the Loss Prevention Council (when it was levy funded by insurers) and allows for collapse of the pallet stack and the effects of radiated heat. Pallets have a particularly high fire load due to their open construction that allows a free flow of oxygen across the burning surfaces. Of course, some firms put the pallets 10m from the building and then go and park 2-3 vans between the pallets and the building. This scenario is not governed by the storage condition but it does rather drive a coach and horse (or white vans) through it.
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