Rank: Guest 
|
Curious question has arisen and want to seek advice - The question - Hose Reels (normal red reels on work premises walls), if they are not tested regularly do they present a Legionnaire Hazard?
If so, does anyone know of a link where I could gain the information as I need the ammunition to hit a contractor with who says they test the hoses but I know they don't and just sign them off as inspected
My thoughts are yes but need it clarified by other experts in the field
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user 
|
Yes they can. If the hose reels come off mains water supply, then non-return valves should be fitted to prevent stagnant water flowing back into the water supply.
If this cannot be done, then consideration should be given to disinfection (if possible) and then more regular flushing. When testing or flushing the hose reels, care should be taken to prevent aerosol creation ie putting hose to drain and not spraying.
If the hoses reels are rubber - legionella loves rubber!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Chapman I am by the no means a legionella expert, understanding the basics as most would, so would be grateful if you could expand upon the above point.
As I understand it legionella bacteria is present in all water naturally but the bacteria requires warm water (20-45deg) to multiply to sufficent quantities for there to be a risk to health through inhalation of water droplets. So I'm confused as to how a cold water hose could be a high risk? Is it becuase of the temperature of the air in buildings possibly being higher than 20deg?
A stupid question may be but I've always been confused as to why a cold water system is a risk when heat is required for the bacteria to multiply.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I'm with Clairel on this one. Thought legionella needs water temperature (20-30*C ish), stagnant and to be sprayed/atomised to be high risk when released
When I lived in a building of multiple accmodation, with fire hose reels, it was actually encouraged to use fire hose reels for washing cars etc - the company fire service view was that it at least showed the hose reels worked.
Obviously having the secondary purpose of flushing the hoses through, not that I think legionella was considered the reason.
Additionally I thought the current view of hose reels, among the fire safety crowd was to have hose reels removed - due to the need for training how to use them/fight fires and was no longer considered to be acceptable/best practice. Possibly putting people at risk.
Not to mention the cost of servicing etc.
Flush regularly or alternatively keep the hoses drained down - hence mitigating what little risk of legionella there might be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Many interpret the relatively narrow optimum temperature range for the growth of micro-organisms as the only temperature at which they grow. That is incorrect. Though there are a few notable exceptions that have very narrow temperature ranges and will not grow at all outside that narrow range - Neisseria gonorrhoeae, the causative organism of gonorrhoea, springs to mind - most will be capable of growth at temperatures far from the optimum range.
The higher end of the temperature spectrum is rather short but lower temperatures permit significant growth albeit at a lower rate of cell division. Legionella is no exception here.
But why worry too much about this? The comparison to shower heads etc is weak. If there is a fire, the use of a hose directs a strong jet of water away from the user. Within a moment, the jet will be of fresh clean mains or tank water (if from a tank, then that water will be subject to other controls which is a separate issue) - the risks are from fire and smoke, not legionnaires.
Occasional testing of the water supply may be of some concern but I assume that the test will mimic the intended use of the hose, though in an open space. No risk for the user or anyone else, unless some idiot wants to hose down an unsuspecting workmate! A lesser water flow during testing, for example to confirm that the system is suitably pressurised and water could flow if the hose is activated, might be a more gentle stream into a bucket or nearby drain. Again, no real risk of exposure, any more than those who may be tasked with flushing little used taps and shower heads and who might be advised to keep their heads out of the flow. Nothing more is necessary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
I'm a keen believer in the regular use of hose reels for other purposes. As well as flsuhing them through and checking them it get's people used to how they handle.
The problem can rise when the operation of a hose reel automatically operates the alarm system. People stop bothering because if the hassle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
So Ian
We have to worry about Neisseria gonorrhoeae in the fire hoses!!
Only kidding.
I have repeatedly observed water quality paperwork stating "remove hose reel" and fire safety paperwork stating "hose reel serviced".
In my mind the risk is negligible and the requirement for potential fire safety is far more convincing.
Fire hose reels have been in buildings for a long, long time and I have never heard of an outbreak caused by a fire hose.
SOS
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Where you do decide to remove, ensure the associated pipework is also removed or isolated to remove the "dead-leg" risk. Occasional problems arise where "convenient" tee-offs have been made, from what should be a dedicated pipe-run, for other installations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Not want to high-jack the post, however any thoughts on a very similar issue:
What are the chances of legionnaires arising from a pressurised water system serving 5 showers which are used relatively regularly? Once or twice per fortnight...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I wouldn't count "once or twice a fortnight" as regular use. Best to have a weekly (non-aerosol) flushing regime and regular disinfection of shower heads.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: IOSH staff
|
Just a quick note to any users signed on as Guests, from the Web Team here at IOSH - unfortunately Guests cannot post, only read messages. We have had some contributors logged in as Guests trying to post on this stream by sending their responses through as 'Concerned messages'. Unfortunately these do not appear on the stream but come to us in the Web Team office. If you want to post a reply on the stream, rather than report a concern with the forum, please register with the site and you will be able to post in the normal way.
Kind regards,
Web Team
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Our local authority took the decision to remove all hose reels and replace with portable fire fighting equipment, they also removed all the dead legs to further reduce the legionella risk.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
for interest only
See car window wiping/cleaning systems as the legionella bacteria apparently loves this environment and escapes via spray/atomised droplets
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
You are meant to check that little used outlets are flushed regularly.
Legionella can travel along pipework, so its wise to ensure no dead legs etc and a flushing regime is in place.
Whats the ambient temperture in your office, the hose reel cold sit there and never be used, warming and cooling etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.