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lombard4408  
#1 Posted : 09 August 2012 12:32:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lombard4408

Hello All, I have my own opinion on things but cant see anything in the legislation to support my way of thinking. I have suggested that our catering supplier place COSHH assessments wherever he has his chemicals stored simple. His safety people are saying that it is not necessary and the assessments stored centrally which I disagree with as not only do you have the emergency provisions on these but the PPE requirements for employees. Has anyone come up across against this?
hopeful  
#2 Posted : 09 August 2012 12:41:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hopeful

I haven't had an issue with this in the past, my suppliers have done as I asked and provided. I agree with you as you need to be able to access the information as it is on your premises.
Kate  
#3 Posted : 09 August 2012 12:51:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The catering employees need to know or have access to the precautions and the emergency actions. That doesn't have to be by having the COSHH assessment to hand. This may have been covered in some other way such as training.
David Bannister  
#4 Posted : 09 August 2012 12:54:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

lombard, is it your employees or customers who are exposed to the hazardous substances in normal circumstances. If not, I suggest that all that is necessary is for emergency information/procedures to be made available to you. The employer has presumably done his own assessment and implemented an appropriate control regime, which may involve storage in a locked cupboard. Take a view on the packaging information - if its labelled as methyl ethyl death then you have cause for grave concern. If your people are using the stuff or the chance of exposure is significant then do your own assessment and devise your own controls.
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 09 August 2012 13:41:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The people at risk need specific information, instruction and training (and supervision). A proliferation of paperwork isn't the best way to provide that.
teh_boy  
#6 Posted : 09 August 2012 13:44:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Answered above - but you don't state amounts stored and so.... http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hsg71.htm may provide an insight into requirements. If it's flour / oil or other flammables and the quantities are high the results of fire or DSEAR assessments may be more relevant.
lombard4408  
#7 Posted : 09 August 2012 15:21:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lombard4408

Thanks all, To clarify its small amounts and is a vendor of ours, this is relatively low risk chemical however I have observed poor PPE compliance in line with the COSHH recommendations despite that fact that these guys have had training and refresher training on me highlighting this to their management. I think the wide array of chemicals used is confusing and in having a COSHH assessment to hand I feel that this would be a good point of reference for their employees also something they could show to a first aider/ emergency services in the event of an incident rather than going to a central store to get this.
Kate  
#8 Posted : 10 August 2012 08:45:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Your first aider or emergency / medical staff would find the information they need much more easily, reliably and authoritatively from the msds than from the COSHH assessment. And if your staff are at risk of exposure, then you too could do with the msds as you'll need to do your own COSHH assessment. So all in all I think you'd be better off asking for the msds.
IanS  
#9 Posted : 10 August 2012 10:39:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanS

Sorry Kate, I have to disagree. Don't forget that the MSDS contains a lot of information that is of little use and the only info relevant to a user is what the hazard is, how to prevent it coming to fruition (PPE, seems to be the OP's main concern) and what to do if it does - a CoSHH assessment could, in the OP's scenario, be a single A4 sheet summarising that.
Kate  
#10 Posted : 10 August 2012 11:44:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

A COSHH assessment could indeed be like that - but many are not. In fact a good COSHH assessment is activity-based not substance-based and so doesn't usually take the format of an information sheet about a single chemical, which is what is wanted for emergency use. It will also contain information that is surplus to the emergency requirements, such as the quantities used and the conditions of use, possibly in some detail. At the same time it is unlikely to reproduce the detailed toxicological section of the msds or the "notes for physician" if any. COSHH assessments are not generally designed to convey the emergency information quickly, and even if this information is fully contained within the COSHH assessment, it's all the more difficult to find this information when it's presented in an unfamiliar format. The advantage of an msds for finding information in an emergency is that they have a standard layout, so the responder knows which section to refer to. So even though there is surplus information, the relevant bits are easily found. The other advantage of the msds is that the information about the substance is straight from the supplier, not filtered through someone's more or less reliable interpretation as in a COSHH assessment.
chris.packham  
#11 Posted : 10 August 2012 12:05:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

A good COSHH risk assessment should include consideration of the actions needed were the control measures to fail. This should be based on the real chemical hazard, not on what is on the safety data sheet. The safety data sheet only lists those substances that are classified as hazardous, and there are thousands of substances that have never been so classified but that can cause damage to health. Furthermore, the safety data sheet only provides information on the product 'as supplied'. In one case the safety data sheet showed a large content of a potent sensitiser. However, investigation revealed that this was not bioavailable in the task in question, so exposure was not a concern. In this case treating a reaction, possibly anaphylaxis, on the assumption that it was the sensitiser in the product that was the cause could have actually made the problem worse or at best delayed implementing the correct procedure. My approach is that one needs to determine from the risk assessment what the reaction might be and then provide the information about response in a separate, clear and simple to understand document/poster or other suitable medium. Chris
Seabee81  
#12 Posted : 10 August 2012 12:11:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

This is YOUR work site so therefore YOUR rules. If you ask for COSHH assessments or MSDS sheets then they should be supplying them. They are being a bit cheeky in my opinion, it's not an unreasonable request. Check with your contracts department. There must be something stating that they must follow your rules while on site.
lombard4408  
#13 Posted : 10 August 2012 12:44:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lombard4408

Thanks guys agreed this is under our control so I will be stipulating this, I think that it may be something I need to write into my procedures to ensure that this is clear. I just wanted to ensure that I was being fair in my approach and not imposing anything excessive and to see anyone else's approach to this. Thanks all
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