Rank: Super forum user
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I have been dealing with a number of building control issues recently concerning disabled access to and use of new buildings. The building regulations are subject to Building Control persons who are devolved and no longer part of the LAs in strict terms. These firms live by the fee income from Designers and Clients who are able to work anywhere and use the BC company they feel is most responsive to them, sorry perhaps they would say understands our needs.
When it comes to enforcement of the regulations the BC person signs off the project whether or not it reaches the standard of the approved documents and at that point there is no further action that can be taken against any deficiencies by anybody. The building complies because a certificate has been issued - apparently the BC people, while they meant to ebforce feel they should advise and certainly not argue with a designer who states it is not reasonable to comply with the baseline standards.
Hmm - We could devolve the HSE, make it subject to fee income to survive and sit back and atch standards improve - wellhte government think that is the case for Building Control. So is this the future for HSE. Get a pet enforcing organisation and a sign off where necessary.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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THis might be a better deterant by persons or builders who didn't build correctly.
This is the Code of Hammurabi and is about 2000 BC
If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly and the house which he has built falls in and kills it’s owner, then the builder shall be put to death.
If it kills the son of the owner then the son of that builder shall be put to death.
If it causes the death of a slave of the owner of the house, he shall give the owner of the house a slave of equal value.
If it destroys property he shall restore whatever it destroyed and because he did not make the house of which he built firm and it collapsed, he shall rebuild the house which collapsed at his own expense.
If a builder builds a house for a man and does not make it’s construction meet the requirements and the wall falls in, that builder shall strengthen the wall at his own expense.
I reckon this would make them think? Maybe a return to old health and safety laws maybe the way forward the common sense arguement doesn't work. Completed a risk assessment yesterday for using scissors. and I am working on movement around site. I have started with number onbe open your eyes when walking as this will enable you to see.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not so good if you are a slave !
Hands up all us slaves
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Rank: Super forum user
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Maybe I should have removed the reference to 'slaves' in case it causes offence.
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Rank: Super forum user
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No offence, It's important to know how you fit in. The above is not so different to what is happening anyway, is it. H&S being constantly undermined and a push to remove /reduce the rights to make claims and to peoples welfare etc.
If someone gets hurt its ok, there are lots of people on the dole that would be happy to replace them. Sorry I know it's a bit of a jaundice view, but when I look around this is what I see at the moment.
Bring on the revolution (slave uprising) or at least Friday fun.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris
The real point is though that as long as you have a signature it does not matter if anything happens as you can no longer be enforced as the certificate has been signed. No more expensive prosecutions and look at how much court time could be freed up. Forget Corporate Manslaughter and everything else the certificate means that you were obeying the law even if you are not meeting minmum regulatory requirements as your partner enforcer, who you are paying, has said its OK.
This is the reality of devolved enforcement and as you say it is the way the HSE is heading.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Surely this will not affect the common law of negligence so you will still be able to sue- maybe even the Building Control officer! This system is reminiscent of the system used to audit a companies accounts ie they are checked by an accountant who is paid by the company. Accountancy companies try to use this auditing job as a way to get more business from their clients, which would suggest that it is in their interest to keep the client sweet. Of course this process has a poor reputation with loads of financial scandals down to dodgy audits. Despite knowing that this is a problem, no significant changes have been made to this system for years.
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Rank: Super forum user
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boblewis wrote: ......... apparently the BC people, while they meant to ebforce feel they should advise and certainly not argue with a designer who states it is not reasonable to comply with the baseline standards..............Bob I must to admit that when I was a designer, I would expect to argue against some requirements as being 'not reasonable' in specific circumstances - and would expect to win most times Similarly, arguing against safety requirements that I consider not to be 'reasonable' is something that I would do, and would expect other safety professionals to do so also So I'm not sure what the problem is - interpretation of Building Regs has always been a personal judgement , to some extent - unless the problem is the inability of the Building Control people to make that judgement that you wanted. How you address that is another matter. [unless you go back to it being all 'in house' at the Councils. - but you'll still get some decisions go against what you want One man's 'Bad' decision is another man's 'Good' one
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Rank: Super forum user
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The original post mentioned disabled access, and the whole issue of disability rights and adjustments is one of the most toothless pieces of legislation to hit the statute books. The Equality Act replaced the Disability Discrimination Act, but has repeated the essential weakness of the legislation, in that no-one was made responsible for enforcing it, and it is therefore up to an individual who feels discriminated against to take the offenders to either tribunal or county court. Not surprisingly, there hasn't exactly been a rush to do this; who can afford to take such action? End result is that organisations get away with ignoring the legislation, the retail sector being the worst offender in my experience.
The revelations about building control enforcement don't suggest the situation is going to get better any time soon.
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Rank: Super forum user
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boblewis wrote:Hmm - We could devolve the HSE, make it subject to fee income to survive and sit back and atch standards improve - wellhte government think that is the case for Building Control. So is this the future for HSE. Get a pet enforcing organisation and a sign off where necessary.
Bob Bob, You may joke about how HSE inspection could be outsourced, however I thought that this is already quietly being introduced through the current HSE programme of ‘targeting intervention’. If you look at http://www.hse.gov.uk/la...targeting-interventions, there is an am of moving “duty holders into the top right “aware/committed, co-regulation” quartile, where businesses use their own independent certification and audit to manage the risks they create without proactive intervention by regulators”.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Biker1
Spot on this is how it is.
Alan
But it appears that it is reasonable to design doorways such that they are too small for wheelchairs rather than used the approved document dimensions, or to design parking bays that have no safe zone around them or are too narrow to fully open doors, or entrance porches too small to allow wheelchair users to open the inner doors. Best of all disbled toilets with pans set at the right height for children. Access statements were meant to be just that but are used as a method to evade compliance with baseline standards.
Excellent enforcement model I think for the HSE
Bob
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