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Hughes42828  
#1 Posted : 17 August 2012 16:13:00(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Hughes42828

Can anyone help- we have been informed by a colleague who is a Hindu that she cannot wear lace up shoes for religious reasons- anyone else heard of this?
Zimmy  
#2 Posted : 17 August 2012 16:19:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Nope. But you never can tell. Not come across that before and I've been around forever.
jay  
#3 Posted : 17 August 2012 17:05:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Not heard of this one directly.
lisar  
#4 Posted : 17 August 2012 17:24:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lisar

Nothing even on google. Is it something that laces are made of?
John J  
#5 Posted : 17 August 2012 17:44:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Shoes are considered impure and Hindus do not like to touch them by hand. This is why slip one are preferred to lace ups. Shouldn't be a problem, there are plenty on the market.
John J  
#6 Posted : 17 August 2012 17:46:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Should be 'slip ons', apple auto correct strikes again
martinw  
#7 Posted : 18 August 2012 10:23:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

Never heard of this one either. Heard of leather shoes being banned as the material comes from cows which are seen as sacred. Heard of Dalits or untouchables being told that they are not allowed to wear shoes in the presence of a caste Indian, and even that Hindus should not wear shoes while cooking or dining but have never come across this one. I suppose the choices are either accept it if you do not want to potentially offend and it does not cause you any bother - or the other side (which would be my choice as I am a cynic when it comes to religion and out of the blue religious reasons for not doing things or wanting things a certain way) is ask her to prove it. Tell her to show you where it says that she cannot wear lace-up shoes. A fiver says she can't, and there is some other issue which she is not keen to discuss. You could also make a detour to the nearest mosque and take a peek at the shoes left outside while the peeps enter to pray. Either way, if you find out, would you let us know?
John J  
#8 Posted : 18 August 2012 19:22:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

martinw wrote:
Never heard of this one either. Heard of leather shoes being banned as the material comes from cows which are seen as sacred. Heard of Dalits or untouchables being told that they are not allowed to wear shoes in the presence of a caste Indian, and even that Hindus should not wear shoes while cooking or dining but have never come across this one. I suppose the choices are either accept it if you do not want to potentially offend and it does not cause you any bother - or the other side (which would be my choice as I am a cynic when it comes to religion and out of the blue religious reasons for not doing things or wanting things a certain way) is ask her to prove it. Tell her to show you where it says that she cannot wear lace-up shoes. A fiver says she can't, and there is some other issue which she is not keen to discuss. You could also make a detour to the nearest mosque and take a peek at the shoes left outside while the peeps enter to pray. Either way, if you find out, would you let us know?
Why would you visit a mosque when she's a Hindu? Just say सुरक्षा के जूते पहन लो और जीवन पर एक अच्छा आधार रखने के लिए.
martinw  
#9 Posted : 19 August 2012 12:58:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

It is difficult to get across that you are being a bit tongue in cheek in blogs. My point was (clumsily made, true) that there is a difference between what is a commandment or is in scripture which states that you must or must no do something, and a particular way of doing things that has become customary. I would include the recent cases involving christians insisting that they must be allowed to wear a cross, when there is nothing in the bible that states that you must. I know that Hindus as JohnJ said that shoes are considered impure but that does not mean this does not come into a 'you must not wear shoes with laces' declaration. I have dealt with this from another side - in a previous role I had to advise nursing and medical staff who went into the homes of others who required their assistance, and as lone workers were concerned that they were being told to take their shoes off when going into some houses, especially those who had pets(poo on floor, in some cases), those who were aggressive or family members who were. I had major arguments with those (mainly white colleagues) who thought that I was being ignorant, borderline racist, all that nasty stuff. My advice which was backed by the diversity folks in the organisation, was that it is absolutely not necessary to remove the shoes. It is a cleanliness issue, and wearing overshoes(those plastic thingies that fit over then can be binned) ensure that the shoes do not touch any part of the floor, which negates the problem. All was explained to the clients who were being visited and all accepted the situation, apart from one or two. Such is life.
David H  
#10 Posted : 19 August 2012 16:47:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David H

Interesting - she would not be allowed on our sites as the rules are clear - lace ups only. But could she then claim discrimination?? The world is going madder!! David
John J  
#11 Posted : 19 August 2012 17:13:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

David, Just out of interest why lace ups only? Does that mean no rigger boots, wellies etc. John Apologies for not putting the full translation up, I should double check my posts it means 'Wear safety shoes and keep a good footing on life'.
TSC  
#12 Posted : 20 August 2012 10:13:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
TSC

I have heard of non lace ups being banned for welding/operations that cause sparks, concreting operations but I think the main reason stated or claimes is lack of support for the ankles. Curious to why no to non lace ups though.
jay  
#13 Posted : 20 August 2012 10:31:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Whereas there are sensitivities involving the "cleanliness" and for a very small minority "leather" (from cattle origin) aspects, I have personally not come across lace-up and non lace-up. The only difference is that there is a small minority that believe that hand must be washed immediately after touching the shoes. Therefore, non-lace up is a better solution if and only if the wearing & removing of the shoes is frequent. There could be some extremely orthodox Hindus who still believe that one must cleanse themselves after every episode of coming in contact with "unclean" objects etc. It is extremely rare as that person probably cannot have a normal working life wherever in the world, including in India. (I am from a Hindu background, but do not profess to be an expert on it).
achrn  
#14 Posted : 20 August 2012 10:53:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

TSC wrote:
I have heard of non lace ups being banned for welding/operations that cause sparks, concreting operations but I think the main reason stated or claimes is lack of support for the ankles.
For example, Network Rail Level 2 standard NR/L2/OHS/021 Issue 3 clause 4.1.3 requires any contractor (or employee of NR) on or near the line or on the lineside to wear "Safety footwear which complies with BS EN ISO 20345: 2004, provides support to the ankle, includes mid-sole protection, and has a protective toe cap. Where used, steel or other conductive toe caps shall be covered." and further states "Rigger boots do not meet the requirements for ankle protection and shall not be used." Clause 4.1.4 then provides a specific exemption to that requirement for "Any person working in water, mud or snow", which permits them to wear wellingtons for that work. (Welders and hot works get anoher exemption to allow welders boots.)
TSC  
#15 Posted : 20 August 2012 10:57:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
TSC

achrn wrote:
TSC wrote:
I have heard of non lace ups being banned for welding/operations that cause sparks, concreting operations but I think the main reason stated or claimes is lack of support for the ankles.
For example, Network Rail Level 2 standard NR/L2/OHS/021 Issue 3 clause 4.1.3 requires any contractor (or employee of NR) on or near the line or on the lineside to wear "Safety footwear which complies with BS EN ISO 20345: 2004, provides support to the ankle, includes mid-sole protection, and has a protective toe cap. Where used, steel or other conductive toe caps shall be covered." and further states "Rigger boots do not meet the requirements for ankle protection and shall not be used." Clause 4.1.4 then provides a specific exemption to that requirement for "Any person working in water, mud or snow", which permits them to wear wellingtons for that work. (Welders and hot works get anoher exemption to allow welders boots.)
Thanks achrn, that clarifies my part as it was a contractor who worked with network rail who had this policy.
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