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Kay  
#1 Posted : 20 August 2012 11:06:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kay

Morning All, I have just found out that a contractor has quoted to repair the roof of one of our buildings, and when asked to provide a Method statement / Risk assessment, supplied a document with no mention of working at height or control measures for it. I was horrified! Our facilities manager queried this apparent omission and was told words to the effect that scaffolding isn't normally bothered with but could be provided at an addtional cost if your Safety Adviser (i.e. me) wants it. I would say this is blatant contravention of the WAH Regs, and I just wanted to check that other people agree that this company should not be pricing jobs on the basis of doing work in a way that breaks the law? Therefore there should be no extra cost for WAH control measures? Thanks
TSC  
#2 Posted : 20 August 2012 11:10:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
TSC

Contractors will charge extra for scaffolding etc (normally with a mark up), however the fact that they quoted without this would not build my confidence up in them and I would advise the management to seek another quote from a different company based on my concerns.
Jake  
#3 Posted : 20 August 2012 11:18:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

Depending on the site and nature of the repair scaffolding may not necessarily be required. A Safe System of Work for completing the task will be though, there are numerous was to achieve compliance. To ensure you get comparative quotes you should go to tender making it clear you want a quote for the task to be completed in full compliance with the required legislation, then allow the contractors to tell you how they are going to approach the job. Once tenders are receive, selected the most appropriate. If this contractor wants to use scaffolding, then fine, get them to price it up but check with other companies if this still remains competitive. Certainly from a contractor competency checks basis I'd question their understanding commitment to H&S if they would happily start the job with WAH completely omitted from any documentation.
CliveLowery  
#4 Posted : 20 August 2012 11:29:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Hi Kay, I attended one of your branch meetings recently given by Nick (Rigby?) from the HSE. He stated quite categorically that HSE would also look to take enforcement action and/or prosecute for fragile roof work where little or no consideration for safe working had been made. His reasoning which I fully agree with are that the risk are well known and there is plenty of free information available to assist in providing a SSOW. I would recommend this task goes out to tender again. Regards Clive
Kay  
#5 Posted : 20 August 2012 11:34:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kay

I agree with both of your comments, my concern was mainly that they didn't appear even seem to consider WAH to be a risk, when I would consider it to be the biggest one relating to roof work. I find it shocking that compliance with legislation should need to be requested, as opposed to taken as a given! I also worry that if this contractor is so completely unaware of his obligations, he must regularly put his employees at risk; do we have a moral duty to make him aware of this? And in my experience the lessons that are best remembered are those that cost money!
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 20 August 2012 12:33:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi Kay There is of course a number of different methods and equipment for W@H as has been mentioned. However, I would not be happy with a contractor not including the equipment needed in the MS/RA and as far as I'm concerned the cost of the equipment should have been included in price. I agree with clive and suggest you re-tender. Ray
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 20 August 2012 12:44:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I don't know the nature or extent of the repair, so can't really comment on what would be an appropriate SSoW. It is acceptable to replace a few slates here and there from a roofing ladder for example, or patch a low-rise flat roof where the area being worked is well away from the edge without edge protection. Can you give us a bit more context?
Kay  
#8 Posted : 20 August 2012 13:26:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kay

The work includes: Work shop canteen roof x 245m area Remove grit coverings, all felt coverings, wet Fibre boards Prime roof area on box Cladding structure Lay 1 layer of 180 polyester felt, Fibreboards 12mm adhered with hot bitumen, 1 layer of 180 polyester felt with hot bitumen, 1 layer of 250polyester green mineral cap sheet Remove all 7 skylights, replace with new double skinned opaque skylights I just think it's unacceptable that a roofing contractor, whom the layman would probably assume to be competent and safe can get away with quoting like this, believing any form of WAH control measure (scaffolding or otherwise) to be an optional extra.
frankc  
#9 Posted : 20 August 2012 13:52:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

Kay wrote:
The work includes: Work shop canteen roof x 245m area Remove grit coverings, all felt coverings, wet Fibre boards Prime roof area on box Cladding structure Lay 1 layer of 180 polyester felt, Fibreboards 12mm adhered with hot bitumen, 1 layer of 180 polyester felt with hot bitumen, 1 layer of 250polyester green mineral cap sheet Remove all 7 skylights, replace with new double skinned opaque skylights I just think it's unacceptable that a roofing contractor, whom the layman would probably assume to be competent and safe can get away with quoting like this, believing any form of WAH control measure (scaffolding or otherwise) to be an optional extra.
Like we needed that information, Kay, you need info from them by way of their MS. Ensure whoever you decide to give the contract to use fall prevention around the skylight areas when they remove the old ones too. and an answer to a previous question, yes you do have a moral duty.
Kay  
#10 Posted : 20 August 2012 14:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kay

Their MS is embarrassingly poor! Thanks for all comments.
prodigal  
#11 Posted : 20 August 2012 15:13:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
prodigal

Hello Kay, The HSE has published the following guidance document for working on roofs - Health and safety in roof work (HSG33 - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pu...egen&cr=11/20-aug-12); a very interesting reference point in regards to the issue you have raised. Dwayne
jay  
#12 Posted : 20 August 2012 16:32:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

There should have been reference to fall/edge protection in any case, even if this is a flat or almost flat roof
Ron Hunter  
#13 Posted : 21 August 2012 13:08:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Not so much a repair then, but a substantial re-roof project. Presumably the rogue contractor you describe has been told where to go and your attention turned to other, more reputable bidders. From the work you describe, there are of course inter-acting issues around fire safety and occupancy safety- particularly where the intention is that the area and rooms below are to remain in use. Common practice to build bird-cage fall mitigation measures below skylights. If you don't want the building cluttered you can go for nets, but there'll be a bit of preparatoty work required for that which is likely to upset the internal fabric. Workers can be harnessed and restrained up there. Unfortunately falling tools and materials usually cannot. Long story short - In some respects, the SM Statement will be a joint venture. Do also make sure that your emergency exists are clearly marked and that edge-protection measures don't obstruct them. I have that T-Shirt somewhere...........
Rob M  
#14 Posted : 21 August 2012 13:50:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob M

As a facilaties manager myself, I always document in the proposal what information and safeguards i am looking for, I think that if you want equal quotes and equal safety measures from all parties it would be prudent to provide a more detailed scope of work (which would include all the safety measures you require from your contractors)enabling you to make a more balanced judgement on cost ve involvement.
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