Rank: Forum user 
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Good day.
Could you, please, advise on the following issue.
We have on the rig big cement bags laid down in several layers, using crane. The total height of the stacking is about 4 meters. Employees have to climb this height without any ladder to sling the bags.
How can we secure the slinger from falling? Is it a good way to use harness connected by fall arrestor to the crane hook?
Thank you in advance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Evgeniy wrote:Good day.
Could you, please, advise on the following issue.
We have on the rig big cement bags laid down in several layers, using crane. The total height of the stacking is about 4 meters. quote]
Might seem like a daft question but is there no way you can stack the bags of cement so the highest is reachable without the employees having to climb?
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Rank: Forum user
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frankc wrote:
Might seem like a daft question but is there no way you can stack the bags of cement so the highest is reachable without the employees having to climb?
Thank you for the reply. But my question is not about stacking itself (sure, employee has to climb up), but how to provide the best solution to secure the employee from falling from the stacking. Can you advise?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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What shape is the stack? 4 high but how many wide and 'deep'?
Is there ladder access (properly footed etc) to attach the sling to the outer row? off load one using that then get the operator to clip onto the inner row using a positioning belt or harness with a short fixed strop - fall prevention.
Are they de-stacked in a particular order? stock rotation?
Fall arrest attached to the hook is probably not ideal as there would be periods where the hook may not be high enough for the arrester to prevent contact with the ground.
More info needed
Rgds,
S
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Rank: Forum user
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SNS wrote:What shape is the stack? 4 high but how many wide and 'deep'?
Is there ladder access (properly footed etc) to attach the sling to the outer row? off load one using that then get the operator to clip onto the inner row using a positioning belt or harness with a short fixed strop - fall prevention.
Are they de-stacked in a particular order? stock rotation?
Fall arrest attached to the hook is probably not ideal as there would be periods where the hook may not be high enough for the arrester to prevent contact with the ground.
More info needed
Rgds,
S At the start of operation there was the following picture: 1t big bags each 85*85*85 cm. First layer length - 30bags (85cm*30=25.5m), width - 30bags (25.5m) Following 3 layers are smaller and smaller to form a structure of pyramid It is permanent (not rotational) storage, becoming smaller when there are cement jobs on the drilled wells. Unfortunately, nobody controlled offloading. As the result - stacking, which seems to be unstable and hazardous. We will bear it in mind in the future operations. Anyway, we looked the stacking around and found a good place for a ladder. This way will reduce the risk associated with climbing as a monkey up the stacking. Could you explain in more details your phrase "off load one using that then get the operator to clip onto the inner row using a positioning belt or harness with a short fixed strop - fall prevention." What is the point to connect the positioning belt or harness to? Thanks.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi,
Presumably destacking in layers and the man needs to be on the level to connect to the crane. Once inside about 4 bags from the edge, even if they fall over it would be unlikely that they would go over the edge. If working on the edge bages they could clip on a positioning harness strop to an inner bag lifting point, this would prevent them falling ito the ground as they would be unlikely to pull a 1T bag over.
Hopfully this cross section will show:
1, 2 etc bag; I Inner; O Outer
3I.2I.1O
4I.5I.6I.7O
8I.9I.10I.11I.x12
Ladder to top level, attach and crane off bag 1(Outer), transfer from ladder to stack, clip on to loading loop / crane point of bag 3, lift off bag 2, work along the rows.
Are the bags lifted off singly or in pairs / more? That would change the scenario, but not a huge amount.
Regards,
S
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Rank: Super forum user
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Evgeniy wrote:frankc wrote:
Might seem like a daft question but is there no way you can stack the bags of cement so the highest is reachable without the employees having to climb?
Thank you for the reply. But my question is not about stacking itself (sure, employee has to climb up), but how to provide the best solution to secure the employee from falling from the stacking. Can you advise? The reason i asked is it possible to stack the bags of cement in a way so your employees don't have to climb is because of the hierarchy of The Work@Height Regs. At the top of the hierarchy, it states all work at height must be avoided if possible. Spreading the bags over double the area would half the current height down to 2m. It would negate the problem of preventing a fall. Is this not practical to do so?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Frankc,
Even spreading the bags over a bigger area would not negate the risk of falling off one level. As you will know, there is no minimum distance set out in the regs.
Given the situation described, even if it could be done in the future there is still a stack to be dealt with in situ.
Rgds,
S
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Rank: Forum user
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SNS wrote:
Hi,
Presumably destacking in layers and the man needs to be on the level to connect to the crane. Once inside about 4 bags from the edge, even if they fall over it would be unlikely that they would go over the edge. If working on the edge bages they could clip on a positioning harness strop to an inner bag lifting point, this would prevent them falling ito the ground as they would be unlikely to pull a 1T bag over.
Hopfully this cross section will show:
1, 2 etc bag; I Inner; O Outer
3I.2I.1O
4I.5I.6I.7O
8I.9I.10I.11I.x12
Ladder to top level, attach and crane off bag 1(Outer), transfer from ladder to stack, clip on to loading loop / crane point of bag 3, lift off bag 2, work along the rows.
Are the bags lifted off singly or in pairs / more? That would change the scenario, but not a huge amount.
Regards,
S
Hi. Thanks for explanation. Difficult to understand via forum your suggested procedure regarding offloading. Sorry :) Anyway, we will implement definite procedure in the future operations as this issue was missed. Bags are lifted in pairs. If it is safer for us to lift single bag, we'll do it. frankc, it is not possible to lay all bags in one layer as there is no so much place available for stacking.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Evgeniy wrote:
frankc, it is not possible to lay all bags in one layer as there is no so much place available for stacking.
Do you mind if i ask how many of these 1T bags you need to lift on any given day? I understand it won't be the same figure every day but what's the average?
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Rank: Forum user
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frankc wrote:Evgeniy wrote:
frankc, it is not possible to lay all bags in one layer as there is no so much place available for stacking.
Do you mind if i ask how many of these 1T bags you need to lift on any given day? I understand it won't be the same figure every day but what's the average? Usually we lift 50-60 1t bags every 3-4 days (one day lift, then 3-4 days off)
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Rank: Forum user
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Before thinking about the work at height angle, I would assess whether stacking bags on top of each other was desirable.
If damage was to occur to the bottom bag resulting in loss of contents then the stability of the whole column would be affected.
A rethink is needed.
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Rank: Forum user
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Martin Mulholland wrote:Before thinking about the work at height angle, I would assess whether stacking bags on top of each other was desirable.
If damage was to occur to the bottom bag resulting in loss of contents then the stability of the whole column would be affected.
A rethink is needed. Sure, we should avoid working at height where practicably possible. It is not possible, when there is limited area available for bags. Now, we should think of the safest way for offloading these bags. If you have faced with offloading a stacking of big bags, could you advise?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Evgeniy wrote:
Sure, we should avoid working at height where practicably possible.
It is not possible, when there is limited area available for bags.
Now, we should think of the safest way for offloading these bags.
If you have faced with offloading a stacking of big bags, could you advise?
SNS seems to have the job of slinging the top ones off sorted out. Once you are down to the lower level only, this suggestion should avoid any future problems. There are 90 bags on ground level (30 x 30) covering the 25.5m x 25.5m ground area. You use between 50-60 in one day then none for 3-4 days. Only bring in 50-60 (or the exact amount to make 90)new bags to replace the used ones during the 3-4 day period. That way, there is no need to stack them on top of each other. Therefore, no requirement to work at height in the future.
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Rank: Forum user
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frankc wrote:Evgeniy wrote:
Sure, we should avoid working at height where practicably possible.
It is not possible, when there is limited area available for bags.
Now, we should think of the safest way for offloading these bags.
If you have faced with offloading a stacking of big bags, could you advise?
SNS seems to have the job of slinging the top ones off sorted out. Once you are down to the lower level only, this suggestion should avoid any future problems. There are 90 bags on ground level (30 x 30) covering the 25.5m x 25.5m ground area. You use between 50-60 in one day then none for 3-4 days. Only bring in 50-60 (or the exact amount to make 90)new bags to replace the used ones during the 3-4 day period. That way, there is no need to stack them on top of each other. Therefore, no requirement to work at height in the future. Good idea, however, all cement bags are delivered using winter road. Then location is only accessible by a helicopter. No way to avoid stacking.
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