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mph  
#1 Posted : 28 February 2012 13:31:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mph

We are currently looking at displaying this type of information at our sites as an additional means of increasing interest and focus upon H&S. Before we do so, it would be useful to know what are the possible pro's and con's of doing so. All contributions very welcome. Thank you.
colinreeves  
#2 Posted : 28 February 2012 13:53:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

I seem to recall that this has been discussed before. I think the general opinion is one of caution - the risk of this sort of information, especially if linked to some form of bonus (appreciate you did not mention this) is that incidents etc are not reported on the basis of "not wanting to rock the boat".
PIKEMAN  
#3 Posted : 28 February 2012 13:57:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

In my view it's a bit old hat.....................and can be seen as negative. Also it backfires once you have an accident ie err, well, cough it's ahem "3" days since LTI and so on. Better to have a positive measure eg safe days worked, safety activities done etc.
Zyggy  
#4 Posted : 28 February 2012 14:05:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

I tend to agree with the sentiments of the posters so far. I experienced a situation in a catering establishment where such a scheme existed, & one unfortunate employee who had an accident was then ostracised by her colleagues for reporting it! This then had the effect of driving any reports underground. Zyggy
ExDeeps  
#5 Posted : 28 February 2012 14:13:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Hi, I would try to avoid this if at all possible. I have one of these boards where I work and to be honest as the days increase the pressure to not be responsible for zeroing it increases, with the implied pressure to not report.... When someone finally had an LTA after more than 1000 days two things happened; everyone else was delighted it was not them that had zeroed the board and the guy who had the injury was more agitated about resetting the board than the (actually) minor incident that required a days rest at home. Find a positive / leading indicator for the board, not a lagging indicator, Jim
jay  
#6 Posted : 28 February 2012 14:41:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It really depends upon the safety culture of your organisation. The up side is that it indeed can be the target to improve and also celebrate . The down side is all the connotations of under/non-reporting and ostracising those who report.
mph  
#7 Posted : 28 February 2012 15:09:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mph

Many thanks to all who have taken the time to respond, it is much appreciated. More comments welcomed too! Thank you.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#8 Posted : 28 February 2012 15:34:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Like it or not, it will increase the pressure to mis-classify or dismiss an incident - read the innumerable posts here regarding ways to avoid RIDDOR!
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 28 February 2012 19:56:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I have a particular dislike for this type of initiative which others have also highlighted. It drives the reporting of accidents underground and encourages management to massage the stats as well as other insidious practices. When working on a large construction project some years ago we had such a system. Fortunately we managed over 500,000 hours without an LTI or RIDDOR...but accidents are like buses. I got a particularly nasty email from a senior manager saying he had been to a meeting with the client where he learned of an accident which required the IP to visit the hospital, why was he not told, how embarrassing blah, blah. I responded that all the project senior team were aware of the accident and I presumed he had been informed by the PM. Was he suggesting that I contact him personally when a minor accident happens on site? If so, don't shoot the messenger!
Hally  
#10 Posted : 29 February 2012 08:23:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hally

I think there is a lot of under reporting of accidents as it is at any site, this will only further pressurise employees not to report any accidents or for employers to ensure the member of staff is paid for time off (remember a lot of companies still don't pay when off sick - even for work accidents) to avoid the need of zeroing the LTI board. I once had a PC ask about some of our accidents and i replied 'we ask all staff to fill in the accident book however minor' I asked does your system report all accidents and got no reponse. Enough said.
ExDeeps  
#11 Posted : 30 August 2012 22:37:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Hi and first apologies for resurrecting an old post......but, An update on my previous comment. Since the original post, and following a detailed consultation with staff on the results of a safety climate survey ONE action identified was we turned the days since LTA board around so it is now visible when leaving work not arriving. I would still prefer to not have the board at all but the effect of turning it round has been to say "well done" on the way out, rather than "don"t be the one..." on the way in, Cheers, Jim
Stedman  
#12 Posted : 31 August 2012 08:39:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Back in the late 1990s I used to regularly visit a large American owned chemical site which displayed such a sign and as the numbers of hours and days grew ridiculously high, so did knowledge amongst workers of all the significant unreported accidents. After eighteen months or so, when the initiative had already long lost its credibility, this eventually came crashing down after a very serious vehicle accident which could not be hidden.
Canopener  
#13 Posted : 31 August 2012 13:05:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, this has been discussed on any number of occasions and to my recollection the general consensus is that these schemes are not 'favoured' for the reasons already mentioned 1. Old hat 2. Drives incidents and reporting 'underground' 3. Creative massaging of stats 4. Endless hand wringing about whether an incident or injury constitutes a LTI (see 2 and 3) 5. etc Avoid?!
imwaldra  
#14 Posted : 31 August 2012 18:37:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

Several yearsd ago a major project team suggested this to me. I responded that safety was just one of several key business goals for that project - so, if they planned to also post details of how far the project was ahead of/behind schedule and under/over budget, I would have no objection. Silence!!
Garfield Esq  
#15 Posted : 01 September 2012 18:48:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Garfield Esq

Oil and Gas companies adore this statistical tender driving fluff - Please steer clear.
Victor Meldrew  
#16 Posted : 01 September 2012 21:51:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

If you have/need to display information how about heightening awareness of hazards / Near Misses in terms of a proactive indicator....... 'number of possible accidents prevented ths month'.
Nick Davidson  
#17 Posted : 02 September 2012 13:03:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nick Davidson

Victor is correct in that proactive works better and can be rewarded for actually doing something about potential incidents or even for preventing reoccurrence.
RayRapp  
#18 Posted : 03 September 2012 10:49:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

This penchant for advertising (can't think of a more appropriate word) LTIs emanates from across the pond and I struggle to think of anything worthwhile from this part of the world in terms of health and safety. Sadly this and other beguiling initiatives (ie zero accidents mantra) have become the 'Emperor's new clothes' in the corporate world of seducing clients and brainwashing employees.
Bruce Sutherland  
#19 Posted : 03 September 2012 11:08:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bruce Sutherland

steady now - zero accidents - emperors new clothes - in the same post - people will start to think you are past it!!!!!.....??????? Kind regards Bruce
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