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LATCHY  
#1 Posted : 04 September 2012 08:38:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

Could some one please enlighten me, if a person is "on call" and subsequently is called into work, does their working time start from the initial call or when they actually arrive at work? In the regulation on working time it states that if you are not free to pursue leisure activities when called upon this is then considered working time, so with that in mind as soon as you get the phone call you are on your way to work and unable to pursue your own activities, advise please.
NR  
#2 Posted : 04 September 2012 08:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NR

Can you pursue your own activities when on call? What if you want to drink alcohol etc?
LATCHY  
#3 Posted : 04 September 2012 08:50:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

quote=NR]Can you pursue your own activities when on call? What if you want to drink alcohol etc?
I am sure there is a point there but it is not the one I was looking for, thanks for the response
sean  
#4 Posted : 04 September 2012 08:51:02(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Talking from personal experience when I was on call I was paid a payment for being on call and was then paid as soon as I received the call out till the moment I arrived back home
LATCHY  
#5 Posted : 04 September 2012 08:58:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

sean wrote:
Talking from personal experience when I was on call I was paid a payment for being on call and was then paid as soon as I received the call out till the moment I arrived back home
Is that legislation or would that be company policy, on when the working time starts.
sean  
#6 Posted : 04 September 2012 09:04:11(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Latchy in all honesty I don't know but in reality it would be very difficult for an employer to expect one of their workers to sit around all weekend waiting for a call out without some kind of payment, my work was lift engineering I could drive for up to 2 hours to fix a lift that would take 30 minutes, there is no way I would spend 4 hours driving and expect no payment for that, don't forget I wasn't driving into works HQ I was driving to a break down within a large geographical area.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#7 Posted : 04 September 2012 09:20:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

An increasing number of employers are moving to a zero hours contract model. I'm told it was introduced by the hotel and catering sector where the need for staff varies widely. It was recognised that paying staff to do nothing was no longer possible, and that this approach could be more responsive than use of an agency. You get called in when they want you, and then get paid. At other times, no work, no money. But effectively, you are always on call. Several NHS Trusts have tried to introduce this for some staff, and quite a number of nursing homes in the private sector use this model. It is almost a parallel to working for an agency but one with only a single employer wanting your services. I understand it is the norm in the US and Canadian hospitality and manufacturing sectors, and apparently in some European countries also. I presume it's legal or it wouldn't/couldn't happen. Bit of Hobson's choice rally. If you don't like it, move on. For the many low level UK H&S posts it would seem an option that would be attractive to employers, cheaper that a full time employee or a consultant. It's a tough world, financially and otherwise, and this new employment model may be a reflection of those tough times that are unlikely to go away soon.
LATCHY  
#8 Posted : 04 September 2012 09:21:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

quote=sean]Latchy in all honesty I don't know but in reality it would be very difficult for an employer to expect one of their workers to sit around all weekend waiting for a call out without some kind of payment, my work was lift engineering I could drive for up to 2 hours to fix a lift that would take 30 minutes, there is no way I would spend 4 hours driving and expect no payment for that, don't forget I wasn't driving into works HQ I was driving to a break down within a large geographical area.
The nature of this job is to be on call Mon-Fri, when the office phones it is to go into HQ and pick up a vehicle for transportation to another site, What my question is, does the regulation mean that from when you are called upon at home, does your working time start from the call, as you would not be heading into HQ if you had not been called. The regulations are a bit vague on when the working time starts, so where would I find the answer would it be in legislation or would I need to consult my contract and/also company policy?
Rob M  
#9 Posted : 04 September 2012 09:23:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob M

We classify as on call as having limitations to activity (Such as No alcohol or anything that would prevent that person for conducting themselves in a professional and safe manner) work commences the moment you have recieved the call to duty and finished once you have finished the activity and returned to your origination point or home.
Steveeckersley  
#10 Posted : 04 September 2012 11:34:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steveeckersley

To me its simple- When you get the call you would log the time of the call hence thats the start time - If you then had a serious accident on your way to the call out centre which required to be reported eg Riddor etc this would be done on the basis of "in connection with your work" therefore the clock started the time you got the call. Any investigation including an ABC approach would log times etc and report the specifics of the ABC!
chris42  
#11 Posted : 04 September 2012 12:10:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

The thing with the above is what happens if you are say half an hour drive from home to HQ. You get a call at 9am asking for you to come in after lunch say 2pm. You can’t consider yourself working at 9am, can you?. So does the time start when you get in your car? On a normal working day (9 to 5) you would not include the time it takes to get to work. I think ( Imho) if I was contracted to work from home then my time would start when I get in my car, if a normal day then it is when I arrive at work and clock in or whatever. Sorry I have not seen anything that backs this up as such. I do know that when working on Network Jail jobs there is a restriction on working time which includes getting to the place of work. My guess is though that if it is not spelt out in your contract or any other official company document, then the Company can decide how they want to interpret this. Would you argue differently if it was a possible reportable accident? i.e. Would you argue they were not at work? I think this has been the subject of a previous RIDDOR Question posting.
johnmurray  
#12 Posted : 04 September 2012 12:12:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

On-Call at workplace = time counts On-Call at home = time does not count. http://www.direct.gov.uk...rsAndTimeOff/DG_10029426
bob youel  
#13 Posted : 04 September 2012 12:55:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

I am not going to try to answer the immediate question but state that in my view being 'on-call' without some kind of pay is not a situation that should happen in my book You should be getting paid for missing out on your full enjoyment of life e.g. you cannot have a social drink when on call so you should be compensated for your loss irrespective of what is common practice in many countries / industries as slavery is just a step away What would be the case where you were on call and you acted in such a manner as to create a vicariously liable situation whilst waiting for your call-out? And by U waiting for a call-out an employer is obtaining a 'gain' as the employers mind is at rest knowing that U are on-call to save his business should something happen so an employer should pay for that piece of mind Did we not fight a war to stop slavery and such things?
LATCHY  
#14 Posted : 04 September 2012 13:12:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

There seems to be a lot of conflict about being on call and what being on call means, My initial question was does my working time start from when I am called into work, is it in the regulations that this is so and can business flout this regulations, because if my working time starts from when I receive the call to go into HQ it would add another 5 hrs to my working week which would mean that either I am being under paid or my employer is getting a free service
Canopener  
#15 Posted : 04 September 2012 15:28:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

If you look at the guidance http://www.direct.gov.uk...rsAndTimeOff/DG_10029426 and read the section "What does not count as work", might help you find your answer. In saying that, when I have been called out to attend an incident out of hours or while I am on leave, I count the time from when I leave home to when I get back again.
Seabee81  
#16 Posted : 04 September 2012 15:44:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

Check your contract, it should clearly state what you get paid for and what you don't. If it's too vauge then ask HR to clarify it for you. I'm just about to start a new contract with a new employer. The contract states that my basic working week will be 37.5 hours but I may be (and probably will be) required to work extra hours with no additional renumeration. It also states that I have opted out of the working time regulations with regards to maximum working hours. I won't be on call, but if they do get me out of my bed at 3 in the morning due to an incident, I won't get paid any extra for any of it. I bet there's something similar in your contract
KieranD  
#17 Posted : 04 September 2012 16:11:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

latchy If you want to understand the legal issues, you're well advised to look up all the relevant case law, as interpretations of different levels of senior courts give a range of slightly different weight to different issues.
Steveeckersley  
#18 Posted : 05 September 2012 09:38:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steveeckersley

Seabee81 wrote:
Check your contract, it should clearly state what you get paid for and what you don't. If it's too vauge then ask HR to clarify it for you. I'm just about to start a new contract with a new employer. The contract states that my basic working week will be 37.5 hours but I may be (and probably will be) required to work extra hours with no additional renumeration. It also states that I have opted out of the working time regulations with regards to maximum working hours. I won't be on call, but if they do get me out of my bed at 3 in the morning due to an incident, I won't get paid any extra for any of it. I bet there's something similar in your contract
Not a chance! I dont subscribe to slavery. I thought it was against the directive for the employer to impose an opt out of the working time directive. Its ok for the employee to voluntary opt out! Thats my understanding! On the basis you have described when do you get a break/holiday/life? Your employer obviously does not subscribe to any work-life balance otherwise they wouldnt have asked you to subscribe to such a contract!
NEE' ONIONS MATE!  
#19 Posted : 05 September 2012 10:19:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NEE' ONIONS MATE!

I've never been paid for on call though arguably, your salary includs an amount towards this inconvenience. As to when the clock starts ticking, I think it's once you've left home.
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