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DaisyMaisy  
#1 Posted : 02 October 2012 16:59:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaisyMaisy

Large retail furniture company. Numerous sites all over the country. Some sites do not have specific disabled parking and some customers have complained. there is ample parking but not defined disabled parking - would this be a requirement? any advice helpful.
MrsR  
#2 Posted : 02 October 2012 19:38:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrsR

Hi DaisyMaisy The issue to consider is, is the existing parking suitable for disabled persons? You may have 300 spaces and on a busy day only 50 are used but if they're not wide enough or pose other additional hazards then there is likely to be an issue. Remember just because they're not all used doesn't mean that there will be spaces right near the store, people will typically park as close to the store as they can. Building Reg's M will give you a head start on this one.
boblewis  
#3 Posted : 02 October 2012 22:08:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

If the stores were built after 1996 then thep arking you outline does notcomply with the approved documents then in place. Earlier buildsshouldhave compliedby around 2005. Part M provides clear guidance on the minimum standard. Today the standard requires hatching at least on all sides that touch where other vehicles may be,ie the rear and two side of the bay. Where it is an end bay then the footway can be counted asthe hatched area at the side but only if it is accessibleto the bay users, ie level access onto the path and no obstructions or soft surfaces. You will find that many designers come out with much reduced criteria but Part is intended toshow the minmum standards but enforcement no longer exists since the devolvement of building control powers. Changes are imminenet to the documents as there has been concern expressed about Equality Act trangressions on many new builds. Minimum figures are 2 bays or 5% of total whichever is greater. If you are in a retail park then the landlord is responsible for the parking provision. Unfortunately there is no way to prevent abuse as these parks are classed as private and the Owner alone can enforce - which rarely happens. Bob
roshqse  
#4 Posted : 03 October 2012 10:28:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

It is the responsibility of the tenant to make parking spaces available. That means ' policing' them too. It's not just a case of painting some lines and saying you've complied. You have to show that you make arrangements for preventing abuse and monitoring them. Not always easy though! My local Sainsburys have a security take a wander every so often and stick big embarrassing signs on peoples cars. Then tannoy them in store asking them to move their car. Personally I'd take them out and shoot them...... but the boss was worried about that option!
DaisyMaisy  
#5 Posted : 03 October 2012 13:05:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaisyMaisy

thank you all for your responses - very helpful!!
boblewis  
#6 Posted : 03 October 2012 18:49:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

roshqse wrote:
It is the responsibility of the tenant to make parking spaces available. That means ' policing' them too. It's not just a case of painting some lines and saying you've complied. You have to show that you make arrangements for preventing abuse and monitoring them. Not always easy though! My local Sainsburys have a security take a wander every so often and stick big embarrassing signs on peoples cars. Then tannoy them in store asking them to move their car. Personally I'd take them out and shoot them...... but the boss was worried about that option!
Most retail parks do not include the Car Parking in the various leases and so remain responsible. Like all private parking enforcement is a real rarity and even Sainsbury are not saints.
roshqse  
#7 Posted : 04 October 2012 09:08:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

boblewis wrote:
... Sainsbury are not saints.
I'm sure they're not, but our local is very good. Probably all depends on who the manager is and how seriously they take these things.
Graham Bullough  
#8 Posted : 04 October 2012 10:34:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Earlier this week while locking my bicycle outside a local supermarket I heard some shouting. I looked round to see that a contract security man in a yellow hi-vis jacket was being given verbal abuse by a driver who had just arrived and parked his car in the pick-up bay outside the store. As the driver and his companion had evidently just arrived to start shopping, the security man had asked him to move his car to the adjacent car park. After delivering his volley of verbal abuse the driver did move his car as requested - and nearly caused a collision by driving at speed across the path of another car. When I briefly commiserated with the security man about having to endure such verbal abuse from obnoxious inconsiderate people, he said that sometimes his work patrolling the pick-up bay and disabled parking bays (about which signs are clearly displayed to drivers) resulted in threats of violence and also assaults. At this I suggested that suitably placed CCTV cameras outside the store building might help to deter such behaviour and also to help identify and prosecute perpetrators. Alternatively or additionally, perhaps he and his colleagues should be equipped with covert mini-TV cameras of the sort used by under-cover journalists and investigators. Can any forum users involved with the retail and security sectors for example comment as to whether any employers provide covert mini-cameras to employees who face verbal abuse, threats and violence in the course of their work? If not, would this be worth considering or has it already been tried and found to be ineffective, too expensive or entail too many technical problems? Though I have no issue whatsoever with parking bays for disabled people - for which stores, etc should of course have arrangements to try to deter their misuse, I do wonder if there is any real justification for stores to have pick-up bays, i.e. for brief use by customers while loading their cars after shopping. The ones I see at stores usually appear to be misused by people who can't be bothered to walk any further than absolutely necessary between their cars and the store entrances. Such misuse negates the intended purpose of pick up bays, especially as it's not reasonably practicable for their use to be constantly/frequently monitored and enforced by store staff or contractors.
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 04 October 2012 12:41:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Management of disabled parking is one of the most difficult areas because those who misuse them are often very violent in their attitudes and behaviour. These bays are regarded as Handy for the doorway, cash machine parking, overflow mother and child, 4x4 bays among many others not forgetting of course the false badge users. Many traffic enforcement officers now carry have visible video cameras on their shoulders for this purpose so yes security guards could do the same. What I feel however is that the law needs amendment to allow such bays to be enforced by the local authority or traffic wardens as the case may be subject to the occuoiers agreement. The current position of no legal enforcement in private parks is totally unsustainable in the long run. In the US the outcry against a driver abusing accessible bays is such that drivers do not dare tread that path. Bob
Graham Bullough  
#10 Posted : 04 October 2012 13:35:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Bob Thanks for your information about traffic enforcement officers wearing visible video cameras. Just for clarification, do you mean traffic police officers, traffic wardens or both? Also, though I'm not mobility-impaired myself, I have some experience of selfish lazy people who misused disabled parking facilities when I chauffeured my elderly Mum who had a blue badge for her mobility impairment during the final few years of her life. In one case I parked across the fronts of 2 cars without blue badges in disabled bays while getting my mother's folding wheelchair out of the boot. The agile youngish owner of one car returned and wasn't too chuffed at being delayed from driving off for several minutes until I had finished getting my Mum into her wheelchair. However, at least I was able to park my car in the bay which he vacated instead of having to leave Mum in her wheelchair while I drove off and found a parking space elsewhere! It could be argued that I was remiss in using a disabled parking space which could have been better used by a solo disabled driver. In fact, if we visited a car park with a reasonable number of suitable vacant spaces, we'd tend to use them rather than disabled parking bays because it wasn't a problem for me to push my Mum around in her wheelchair. However, the common snag with many car parks is that their standard parking bays are too narrow, a fact compounded by the inability of some drivers to park sensibly in such bays. Hurrah for car parks which include some wider than normal 'comfort' parking bays which are not restricted to people with young kids and their pushchairs!
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#11 Posted : 04 October 2012 14:19:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

It must work both ways, and the blue badge #abusers# must be policed out of the system also. Apparently, there are many who make inappropriate use of a quite unnecessary blue badge, and/or fail to stick to the rules. I recall the introduction of priority seating on the London tube - that still doesn't work well. And more recently an LT-sponsored scheme to give pregnant women lapel badges indicating their 'condition' was intended to invite more able passengers to give up their seat. Very quickly, the tubes were full of women of a certain age, trying to look pregnant in order to blag a rush-hour seat! I am led to believe that, like the blue badge scheme, those lapel badges are now widely available to anyone from school age to pensioners. Through misuse, the scheme has floundered.
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