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Bill6152  
#1 Posted : 23 October 2012 12:12:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bill6152

All of our manual handling training, company wide, states 15kg as the maximum weight which should be lifted by an individual, but we are being challenged on this. I had the following sent to me and wanted to get other views please? Industry standard one-man lift used to be 25kg. Many carriers have raised this is recent years to between 30 & 32kg. Given the totes have carrying handles and providing the lifter tests the totes weight before committing to the movement we should be able to train staff accordingly. Would you agree with the comments about industry standards and that the weights would be acceptable? Many Thanks
SW  
#2 Posted : 23 October 2012 12:29:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SW

As far as I interpret things there is no defined maximum limits on what you can lift - all down to risk assessment, the individual etc. The 25KG mentioned in the Regs is a guide and not set in stone. I work in Manufacturing and we would be closed if our limit was 15KG. The individual is one to focus on - I am built like a Rugby player but could not lift what my colleague (who was double my age and half-my-weight!) could. I think it was down to technique which I am sticking to!
roshqse  
#3 Posted : 23 October 2012 12:32:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

32 kgs is a lot! I'm 6 foot 1 and big built. I could probably handle that. But what if it was a woman, 5 foot 1, slim build? 32kgs would be quite unacceptable in my opinion. Man handling states clearly that the 'lifter' should assess the load before lifting and get help if required. I can see no way in which you can state that 32 kgs is acceptable for everyone to lift. Smaller lighter people would start receiving injuries.
Mr.Flibble  
#4 Posted : 23 October 2012 12:33:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mr.Flibble

Hi Rhodesia It all comes down to individual capabilities, what's being lifted, from what height to what height over what distance etc 25kg at waist height is normally seen as the guidance for maximum amount of weight however this has been reduced down to 20kg and 15kg but a lot of companies (bag of cement for example). At the end of the day as someone will mention, it comes down a risk assessment. I would say those weights being quoted are rather high and ask them where they are getting those weights from!
Jane Blunt  
#5 Posted : 23 October 2012 13:05:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

The correct technique is hugely important. As a fun example, if you google images of kata guruma you will see something that fits within the legal framework of manual handling, but it is obvious that the load is greater than 32 kg. Do it incorrectly and you risk injury.
IanDakin  
#6 Posted : 23 October 2012 13:54:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Hi Rhodesia It is necessary for you to follow the HSE guidance to employers, available as a free download from their website. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf Before setting a limit, go through the guidance and carry out manual handling risk assessments. The MAC tool on the HSE website is a quick way for getting through a lot of tasks accurately. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg383.pdf Regards Ian
KieranD  
#7 Posted : 23 October 2012 14:24:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Rhodesia1 Compliments on getting to grips with the challenges presented by manual handling. It's so easy for employers to allow them drift till a complex personal injury claim wakes them up. While 'technique' and limits on loads have their place, there are many advantages to understanding the principles of biomechanics and of fatigue that underpin the guidance of the HSE and of the NIOSH. Once you do that you'll be able to interpret challenges on the workshop floor and in training by modelling the essentials and not simply relying on formulae. Probably the best website for free-of-charge information and Excel spreadsheet calculations is that of Thomas E Bernard at the Universityof South Florida.
jwk  
#8 Posted : 23 October 2012 14:50:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I think it is worth emphasising how much the Courts don't like fixed generic rules in circumstances where assessment is required; 15Kg could in fact be too heavy for some people, and setting a limit purely based on weight ignores all the other factor you have to consider. What if the load is hot (pan of potatoes), unstable (also a pan of potatoes as it happens!), cold, otherwise hazardous, andawkward shape, has teeth (ask a vet!), etc etc? You must always assess by looking at the Task, the Individual, the Load and the Environment (TILE). Setting arbitrary limits is also a barrier to doing what the law really requires; which is eliminating manual handling so far as reasonably practicable, John
walker  
#9 Posted : 23 October 2012 15:35:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

That pictogram in the regs/ACOP (woman, bloke & the grid) must be the most wildly misunderstood item published by the HSE. However if you really read whats written it makes perfect sense forget weights - do the RA
decimomal  
#10 Posted : 23 October 2012 15:38:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

SW wrote:
The 25KG mentioned in the Regs is a guide and not set in stone. quote] Some good answers here - the point about the 25kg in the guidance is that should you exceed it and things go pear shaped, you are in the position of potentially having to explain why you did not follow the Code of Practice.
Clairel  
#11 Posted : 23 October 2012 15:48:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

It's not the weight it's what you're doing with that weight that matters. Max weight limits are an unecessary and ineffective burden. Assess the task not the weight.
gt  
#12 Posted : 23 October 2012 15:54:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gt

If there were limits there would probably be no weight lifting in the Olympics
decimomal  
#13 Posted : 23 October 2012 16:43:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

gt wrote:
If there were limits there would probably be no weight lifting in the Olympics
Except competitors are not at work.
Jane Blunt  
#14 Posted : 24 October 2012 08:30:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

decimomal wrote:
gt wrote:
If there were limits there would probably be no weight lifting in the Olympics
Except competitors are not at work.
While this is true, the point of making comparisons with sport is to illustrate that the human being, suitably trained and strong, can do an amazing range of tasks. The difficulty with workplaces is that we sometimes lose sight of the varying capabilities of the individual. 'Weight limits' tend to get driven down to the lowest common denominator, if we are not careful. You will notice that the ambulance service does not operate to a 15 kg limit, otherwise you would need on average 6 to 8 crew members to get any ordinary member of the public onto a stretcher.
decimomal  
#15 Posted : 24 October 2012 09:34:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Good point Jane. However, I try to work on first principles wherever I can and avoid MH where possible. Going off a a slight tangent, it is interesting to note that LA enforcement officers are actvely promoting the avoidance of manual handling in the funeral industry and advocating more use of trollies rather than traditional bearers. Decimo
Pete Mears  
#16 Posted : 24 October 2012 15:12:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pete Mears

Not surprised at that Decimo considering the rise in obesity in this country! However, consider the work of furniture removal workers; clearly, setting a weight limit of 15kg would put them out of business. The answer is as Jane alludes to. Implementing intelligent planning of task, load, environment and individual capability linked to thorough training and feedback of problems encountered does it for me.
bilbo  
#17 Posted : 24 October 2012 16:41:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

Agree with others - the 25kg mentioned in ACOP is not a limit. Tasks must be assessed and I am sure others will agree using the acronym TILE - Task, Individual, Load, Environment will establish what types of load can be handled and in what circumstances. Very much down to individuals capabilties, gender, height, weight, body mass, fitness, whether on medication. The nature of the load also can make a huge difference as jwk observes. A will the location of the task eg office, cold room, warehouse, outside (all weathers) and so on. A simple industry standard is not helpful at all!
toe  
#18 Posted : 24 October 2012 21:23:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

If I read the original post correctly it asks about filling totes and what would be an acceptable weight? Just as a thought the 25 KG weight guidance (male) from the HSE is basically suggesting that an average male can lift a weight of 25 KG, at arms length, using proper techniques and would not be at risk of injury, this is general terms notwithstanding individual sucseptability, age, fitness etc.. So although many people have suggested here RA is key and the weight may not be important, I'm not sure if this is helpful in answering the question. For example if you are manufacturing products or filling boxes for people outwith your organisation to lift then they should where possible be manufactured/filled to within the guidance weight set by the HSE. Hopefully if the guidance has been complied with it would be seen as you upholding your duty if a person was injured. Hence the reason why when I recently brought a flat pack product (child's bed) it came in three boxes all within the 25 KG guidance limit, previously it would have been one or two heavy box/s. In my view weight is important and the guidance has a purpose.
toe  
#19 Posted : 24 October 2012 21:35:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

I may not have made myself clear in the previous post. In essence yes carry out as RA and consider the individual however use the HSE guidance as the weight to fill the totes. If you fill them over 25 KG risk of injury and being sued, keep them under 25 Kg and hopefully have a defence if needed along with you RA, training and safe working procedures etc..
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