Good evening ladies and gents. My daughter recently moved into a council house, her husband is a builder and wanted to make changes, the local council depicted that they had no problems with these changes, after some home improvements my son in law asked me to visit his house, because he thought that he had asbestos containing materials here in. i demanded that the local council carry out an asbestos survey, this survey was carried out and it transpires that there are Amosite and Crocitiyle based materials within the loft space, AIB panels within the bathroom and asbestos containing textured coatings on all ceilings, my son in law has disturbed most of these asbestos containing materials, and my grandchildren have been inthe house, the local authority/landlord has said that they are not going to remove the asbestos and that he should not disturb it, Firstly, should he have not been issued an asbestos survey and secondly, being as we are all aware that this asbestos is now present, should they not arrange for the removal of same!???????????????????

There is no specific duty to administer an asbestos survey other than in common parts of domestic premises, however, this does not absolve an LA of managing the asbestos in one of their properties. From your description there seems to be asbestos in differing locations and forms within the house. This should have been picked up by an LA. Why not? People get confused with 'asbestos surveys' and 'asbestos management plans'. They are two different things altogether. The survey is done and then informs the management plan. From what you describe it sounds like the LA have carried out an after the event survey. This survey should have been carried out much sooner. The second part of your question asks about getting it removed. Well no, it depends on the condition amongst other things. If the LA appointed a competent surveyor and they are saying don't touch it, well don't. That might be the recommendations in the ongoing management plan. You are, however, right to be wary of the LA but removing it might not be the simple answer. Being cynical, the LA are probably looking at the cost first though. And how many other homes in their remit might be subject to removal costs?

crocidolite is the most hazardous type we used to use it in the dockyards and alot of my old friends are no longer due to it i would be very conserned as to why your son in law moved it and allowed the child=ren to stay in the house

I am struggling to understand this as I am well aware that the vaste number of Housing Authorities, both local and housing associations, are aware of the issues in their various properties. Whilst not precise to a house number the information is general to house types and ares at least. The assurance for work thus seems a bit unusual unless of course they realised that the work would not affect the ACMs present. Such bodies do need to have the information as they do employ maintenance staff to undertake work in the premises at which point the regulations DO apply.

Crocidolite in cementitious products is not unusual in some areas, particularly near major ports for some reason, having been used in flue pipes and rainwater goods in significant amounts. Having said that there are various cladding panels and corrugated sheeting that have been used also with crocidolite.

Your son-in-law has taken a fairly typical builders approach - knock it out and then decide what it might be. If he does this at work then he is going to come under the HSE view at some point. ALL structures including domestic housing built before 2000 may have ACMs in the fabric and so you need to be aware.

Forget about the textured coating - it is very difficult to get elevated dust levels when working on this unless you use an orbital sander!!! As for the rest - you now know where it is so avoid damage and disturbance of the materialand there can be no problems. I would paint it to A) Seal the surface, B) Remind you where it is, and this prevents further dust issues being possible.

As for the housing authority you cannot force removal and as other have said this can create even bigger problems. I would be tempted however to try and get them to vacuum clean up the loft before you paint the material. They do have some responsibility as they gave approval for work when they should have had reasonable suspicions of ACM presence due to its age.

Bob

I think there is some post/comments on here that may be incorrect, in my opinion: whilst at first glance it is easy to read the Control of Asbestos regulations and assume that there is no requirement to manage asbestos in leased or rented residential properties, this assumption is incorrect. Landlords who derive income from any property, regardless of use, have a responsibility to manage asbestos in their properties. In the case of a landlord (LA) who derives income from a property, the HSE would expect a responsible approach to asbestos management of 'an equivalent standard to the nearest framework'. In the case of asbestos this would be the Control of Asbestos Regulations, and as such, the requirement for survey AND management plan exists. Section 3(3) of HSAWA, may also be relevent, just my thoughts.

In relation to the son in law should have known better, there is a lot of presumtion on this, as we do not know the full facts and his expeirence as a builder etc etc.

Bob > In regards being too strong towards landlords:

Maybe!! in certain circumstance's, but in this case of local authority housing, I dont thinks so, as I would expect them to have managed their property to a higher standard: when was the property built? pre-1999 you would expect them to have realised, that there would be strong possibility of asbestos present, then the management could have kicked in, i.e. remove, encapsulate, record findings on house file. when the house becomes vacant, landlord agent/manager hands the house over to new occupants. During this process they Go through the house file and inform of where and what is present. Again.. Bob just my thoughts??

Son in law should have been notified by Housing Association of materials containing asbestos prior to giving permission for improvements, all plans of the house and potentially hazardous materials house made of should be kept in H&S policy of construction of this building/s for further safe maintenance and alternations....

Frank

I dont know your background/occupation. So I will have a go at this
1. As stated in my previous post above (9) I believe the Housing Ass who own the house and make money from their rental have a duty of care somewhere along the line, CAR,HSAW, and would be expected to have some kind of management plan in place.

2. The company who the HA employs to complete any work, also would have to ensure that their men are asbestos awareness trained and again I believe should be asking the relevent questions.
3. Where it becomes difficult, is when its the homeowner who employs 1 man outfit to complete some work at their property.
This opens up a whole new world

I work for an LA and we started surveys and management plans many years ago, with the housing stock subsequently transferred to a Housing Association.

However, am I the only one to be disappointed that the HSE hasn't knocked this one on the head by adding a further example of 'rented accommodation' of similar to their chart at

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/campaign/chart.htm

Mind you, the chart says that individual dwellings, tied cottages, private rooms in otherwise shared accommodation are classed as domestic, so you might reasonably assume that the Council house or other similar rented property is also domestic and therefore not covered under the duty to manage under CAR.

Yes, and I am not disagreeing with that as you might conclude from the fact that I said that we had previously carried out the surveys and had management plans when we had the housing stock!