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Hall900056  
#1 Posted : 01 November 2012 00:11:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hall900056

Hi all,
Does anyone have a RA for a Spiral Staircase which allows access/egress to/from a mezzanine floor used as offices and it’s a new building (no other access available) don't you just love architects!
And don't ask - no I've not done the fire ra yet.
DaisyMaisy  
#2 Posted : 01 November 2012 07:20:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaisyMaisy

dont have risk assessment but a couple of comments based on experience to include on your assessment. Had one years ago at old building I worked at, 'mind your head sign' as had a couple of incidents walking under it, maY need protective materials if sharp. also depends on the type of steps but we had two issues where ladies wearing high heels got heel stuck in the small holes and one actually fell forward on the stairs so something to consider so awareness of the hazard and footwear. Give way to those already on the stairs.
Hall900056  
#3 Posted : 01 November 2012 09:30:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hall900056

Many thanks for the info.
This spiral staircase has smooth wooden steps and luckily no females currently work there
Clairel  
#4 Posted : 01 November 2012 11:23:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

RA a staircase?

Jeez.

As a general rule you wouldn't RA a staircase. A general S&T RA might be carried out for a premises, which would include such things, or as part of an FRA. If you've got specific issues with a staircase then address them. I don't see how using someone else's template would help you at all. Look at the Regs. If they don't meet them then the architect / builder should put them right.

Oh and be careful about stataments such as 'luckily no females work there' as it could be misinterpreted!!!
Andrew W Walker  
#5 Posted : 01 November 2012 12:19:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

I wouldn't RA the staircase alone.
As part of a wider RA it would be included.

There is guidance regarding fire RA here:
http://www.communities.g...ents/fire/pdf/150952.pdf

Hope this helps.

Andy
Hall900056  
#6 Posted : 01 November 2012 12:22:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hall900056

Many thanks

I had intended just to include the spiral staircase in the general office RA but then thought I had just better ask. (They do not have any other access to the first floor office)

There is no issue except that I wanted to include controls for things like “carrying of objects” etc.

and yes I take your last important point, it does sound (is) unprofessional, as a heal wearing female I would not be happy using the spiral staircase unless I was wearing secure footwear.

Thank you I really appreciate your advice
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 01 November 2012 12:54:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

No other access? Getting furniture, carpets etc. up and down is going to be a challenge.
Bob Shillabeer  
#8 Posted : 01 November 2012 13:20:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Clairel wrote:
RA a staircase?

Jeez.

As a general rule you wouldn't RA a staircase. A general S&T RA might be carried out for a premises, which would include such things, or as part of an FRA. If you've got specific issues with a staircase then address them. I don't see how using someone else's template would help you at all. Look at the Regs. If they don't meet them then the architect / builder should put them right.

Oh and be careful about stataments such as 'luckily no females work there' as it could be misinterpreted!!!


Clair I am in total agreement with you, this business of risk assessing everything is why it has gone so far over the top. Will you risk assess anyone sitting in a chair to have a cup of tea next, gone way over the top. Needs some real common sence.
Graham Bullough  
#9 Posted : 01 November 2012 13:30:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

It was a relief to see from responses by Clairel and Bob Shillabeer that I wasn't alone in wondering why a transferable/generic risk assessment would be needed for a spiral staircase.

Anyhow, if the staircase hasn't been installed yet, are there any particular reasons why a spiral staircase is to be used? Is it to save vital floor space or a mainly an aesthetic whim on the part of the architect/designer? As ron hunter has mentioned, if the staircase is to be the only means of access to the mezzanine floor, its spiral nature may well pose a major problem for those needing to take crapets, furniture and equipment up it.

As a historical aside I understand that medieval castles were usually built with spiral stairways which ascended clockwise so that occupants usually had an advantage when it came to using their swords against ascending invaders. However, such an advantage would be reduced in the event of attack by left-handed sword users!
Graham Bullough  
#10 Posted : 01 November 2012 13:54:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Apologies for not correcting my mis-typing in #9 of carpets as 'crapets'. Should I plead now for this forum to have an edit facility? Certainly not - I was simply a nitwit for not using my eyes and being sufficiently diligent to check what I'd typed before clicking on the send box!

Another thought: Though it's both inappropriate and a breach of the rules for forum users to insult/deprecate OTHER users, I don't think there's anything to forbid me from insulting myself with the term 'nitwit' above !!! :-)
JohnW  
#11 Posted : 02 November 2012 11:58:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

I don't have an RA for a spiral staircase at one of my clients, but half way down there's a poster on the adjacent wall about holding onto the handrail. It's a very old HSE cartoon-type poster.

The poster was put up after someone slipped when they were carrying some books.......
Renny Thomson  
#12 Posted : 02 November 2012 13:59:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Renny Thomson

JohnW wrote:
I don't have an RA for a spiral staircase at one of my clients, but half way down there's a poster on the adjacent wall about holding onto the handrail. It's a very old HSE cartoon-type poster.

The poster was put up after someone slipped when they were carrying some books.......

Now, were they ascending or descending, left or right handed, and which way does the spiral go?

It is Friday....
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 02 November 2012 14:41:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

The problem with an RA for this is that one keeps going round and round in circles
Jeff Watt  
#14 Posted : 02 November 2012 21:57:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jeff Watt

zimmy wrote:
The problem with an RA for this is that one keeps going round and round in circles


And the Basil Brush Award for comedy goes too....
Graham Bullough  
#15 Posted : 06 November 2012 11:25:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Round and round in circles? Methinks this thread began to, er, spiral out of control with response #9 and that some bloke called Bullough was largely to blame for it! "Boom boom" as that vulpine TV character Basil Brush often liked to say. :-)
IanDakin  
#16 Posted : 06 November 2012 12:55:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Hi

You may wish to consider how you evacuate an injured or movement impaired person down these stairs in the event of a fire. Standard chairs like those supplied by evacusafe will not be suitable.

In terms of carrying items up the stairs, I did do a risk assessment and SWM, and featured in a training video in a previous role, for deliveries of goods to customers using spiral stair cases - if I can find this I will sned to you.
walker  
#17 Posted : 06 November 2012 13:00:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

You lot are a bit hard on Hall!

She ( I believe that's correct, apologies if not) wasn't sure so asked, that sounds like a competent person to me.

You lot jumped down her throat from your lofty positions of knowing everything.

For the record - heels & stairs certainly don't mix very well, however in this politically correct world that observation will get howled down
Jeff Watt  
#18 Posted : 06 November 2012 14:05:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jeff Watt

walker wrote:

You lot jumped down her throat from your lofty positions of knowing everything.



ssssssssssh. For gods' sake man keep your voice down, you'll waken them!

Then it will be 10 pages of when they used to fashion thunderbolts out of the ether and improvement notices.

Any more of that and I'm off to the dark side and joining the CIPD.
Clairel  
#19 Posted : 06 November 2012 15:27:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

walker wrote:
You lot are a bit hard on Hall!

She ( I believe that's correct, apologies if not) wasn't sure so asked, that sounds like a competent person to me.

You lot jumped down her throat from your lofty positions of knowing everything.

For the record - heels & stairs certainly don't mix very well, however in this politically correct world that observation will get howled down


The only person who seems to take offence has been you so far. No one was looking down on Hall. Hall didn't take offence to the comments so why should you???
Clairel  
#20 Posted : 06 November 2012 15:29:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

jeff watt wrote:
walker wrote:

You lot jumped down her throat from your lofty positions of knowing everything.



ssssssssssh. For gods' sake man keep your voice down, you'll waken them!

Then it will be 10 pages of when they used to fashion thunderbolts out of the ether and improvement notices.

Any more of that and I'm off to the dark side and joining the CIPD.


Your derisory attitude to others on this forum at times has been well noted.

I wait with mild curiosity as to how far you will go.
Jeff Watt  
#21 Posted : 06 November 2012 20:16:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jeff Watt

?
Hall900056  
#22 Posted : 12 November 2012 23:23:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hall900056

I cannot believe you lot, and no I am not offended

I only asked the question because (hate that word)
The building is relatively new.
The mezzanine floor was added later as an afterthought
They do have chairs & desks but I was informed that they arrived flat packed
There is no other access!
So ok I would never RA stairs but what bright spark would design that!

Anyhow thanks for your comments
Steveeckersley  
#23 Posted : 13 November 2012 10:49:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steveeckersley

Graham Bullough wrote:
It was a relief to see from responses by Clairel and Bob Shillabeer that I wasn't alone in wondering why a transferable/generic risk assessment would be needed for a spiral staircase.

Anyhow, if the staircase hasn't been installed yet, are there any particular reasons why a spiral staircase is to be used? Is it to save vital floor space or a mainly an aesthetic whim on the part of the architect/designer? As ron hunter has mentioned, if the staircase is to be the only means of access to the mezzanine floor, its spiral nature may well pose a major problem for those needing to take crapets, furniture and equipment up it.

As a historical aside I understand that medieval castles were usually built with spiral stairways which ascended clockwise so that occupants usually had an advantage when it came to using their swords against ascending invaders. However, such an advantage would be reduced in the event of attack by left-handed sword users!

I have no problem with generic risk assesments as long as you map them to other areas. WE have over 100 sites in our NHS with building age from new to over 100 years old a generic risk assessment on loading and unloading is useless because of the very nature of the make up of sites is so different.
Graham Bullough  
#24 Posted : 21 November 2012 12:42:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

steveeckersley

Perhaps I'm a bit thick in being unsure as to what you mean in your response at #23 by 'mapping' generic risk assessments to other areas. If you mean that managers and others liable to use them should be told/reminded that they are for general guidance and should always be adapted to fit the circumstances/conditions at each site, I fully agree with you. Furthermore, it could be argued that it's the responsibility of line managers and not OS&H professionals to make and act on detailed risk assessments. OS&H professionals should of course provide or ensure that line managers get appropriate training, guidance and support about risk assessments, and providing generic assessments for situations/activities which will/might occur at more than one location is an integral part of this role.
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