Rank: Forum user
|
does anyone have any details of the companies involved. Was the operative freelance or working for a contractor?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
sharks If you are referring to the incident which occurred on Saturday 3rd Nov at the Marks & Spencer store in Tunbridge Wells, why not help forum users by providing a link to a news report about it and help put your query in context? It transpires that there are numerous media sites all with pretty much the same basic information, e.g. as at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20192856 One site suggests that the deceased contractor had been "repairing an appliance" and that "horrified shoppers were herded out of the store" shortly after it happened. The heading of a Daily Mail report included "electrocuted to death". This is an odd phrase because the word 'electrocution' means death through electric shock. Therefore, though electric shocks can be fatal or non-fatal, there's no such thing as a non-fatal electrocution! As for further details, including those of the company/ies and the status of the deceased, surely these will be forthcoming in due course through media and OS&H channels.
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
According to the oxford dictionary - electrocute means to injure or kill by electricity!!!! Graham Bullough wrote:sharks If you are referring to the incident which occurred on Saturday 3rd Nov at the Marks & Spencer store in Tunbridge Wells, why not help forum users by providing a link to a news report about it and help put your query in context? It transpires that there are numerous media sites all with pretty much the same basic information, e.g. as at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20192856 One site suggests that the deceased contractor had been "repairing an appliance" and that "horrified shoppers were herded out of the store" shortly after it happened. The heading of a Daily Mail report included "electrocuted to death". This is an odd phrase because the word 'electrocution' means death through electric shock. Therefore, though electric shocks can be fatal or non-fatal, there's no such thing as a non-fatal electrocution! As for further details, including those of the company/ies and the status of the deceased, surely these will be forthcoming in due course through media and OS&H channels.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
briano wrote: According to the oxford dictionary - electrocute means to injure or kill by electricity!!!!
Interesting. My Shorter OED and my Concise OED agree with Graham.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Barnaby again wrote:briano wrote: According to the oxford dictionary - electrocute means to injure or kill by electricity!!!!
Interesting. My Shorter OED and my Concise OED agree with Graham. Stop quoting unreliable sources the the OED :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocution Right every time :)
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
My dictionary (Concise Oxford on CD-ROM) agrees with briano - "to injure or kill by electric shock"
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Maybe we should relect that this guy tragically died on Saturday - rather than on dictionary definitions
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I feel we should let the Police and the Local Authority investigate - let us discuss the outcomes when they are in the public domain
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
As an electrician my thoughts go out to the family at this time. I think we can postpone all speculation until the later when the facts are known.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Of course there will be some who will revel in rampant speculation based on the flimsiest of information.
I don't always agree with Zimmy, but in this case it's difficult to fault his last sentence.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
the problem you have by waiting for the cold case details is that in terms of raising the profile sadly this just becomes another fatality.
The preventative impact is to strike fast - all that is required is a very brief summary of the incident whilst people can still remember it - and then when you have full details you can do it again........
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Bruce
In my opinion it was appropriate last weekend for media sources to publish brief reports that a man had apparently been electrocuted while working at the store and add that a full investigation would be carried out. However, I'm puzzled by your reference to 'preventative impact'. Who, if anyone, do you think would have been influenced, and to what extent, regarding their work arrangements and practices as a result of seeing such brief media reports?
Also, what do you mean by 'raising the profile'? Some readers/viewers of the recent media reports including OS&H professionals will understandably wish to learn more about the circumstances if and when information becomes available from the investigation. However, it's likely that the vast majority of readers/viewers will do no more than fleetingly think that it was sad that someone died at work and have no curiosity as to how or why. This is just my impression of what most members of the public probably think about reports of workplace accidents and deaths, and is certainly not intended to belittle the tragedy of what happened at the M&S store - for the man himself, his relatives and friends, and for others including people working at the store.
With experience as an HSE inspector of investigating and reporting to a procurator fiscal about a workplace electrocution in the 1980s I have some inkling of the effects of such circumstances. Though that electrocution was the subject of reports in local and regional newspapers and possibly on regional TV news, it was apparently not reported nationally. Perhaps it was omitted because other matters were given national reporting precedence or possibly because it wasn't sufficiently newsworthy amid the considerably greater number of workplace fatalities at that time. Though I cannot readily quote statistics for workplace electrocutions, I guess that they are much rarer nowadays. If so, this might partly explain why the recent case received national publicity - alongside media clamour and perhaps public expectation nowadays for instant full information plus speculation and comment about anything and everything!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Graham Bullough wrote: The heading of a Daily Mail report included "electrocuted to death". This is an odd phrase because the word 'electrocution' means death through electric shock. Therefore, though electric shocks can be fatal or non-fatal, there's no such thing as a non-fatal electrocution!
Perhaps because electrical safety is generally of a high standard these days, "Electrocution" seems to get used to mean "getting an electric shock". I also frequently encounter people who should know better who tell me "you can't get a shock from the mains". Indeed my boss put himself in danger but justified it by the fact that there was a 40A fuse upstream and "40 Amps can't kill you". The level of ignorance can be staggering.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
There is bound to be interest in this incident:
1 M&S is a large retailer, well known and has a solid reputation for providing premium goods that people pay that little bit extra for. They work hard on their reputation and – as research has shown - loss of reputation through health and safety failures is a major concern for such companies.
2 In David Young’s report, implemented by ex Employment Minister Chris Grayling, the retail sector was identified as ‘low risk’. As such, both the HSE and Local Authorities have been ‘encouraged’ to stop visiting these ‘low risk’ premises and concentrate on the ‘higher risk’ activities. Mr Grayling did not curb his deregulatory enthusiasm by publishing any evidence supporting his plans.
3 In September last year M&S [Prosecuted by the HSE] were fined £1 million + £600,000 costs for exposing customers and others to asbestos fibres during two shop refurbishments. As reported in the 28th September 2011 shponline M&S stated that ‘we believe that we have always acted responsibly and with a ‘safety first’ attitude’. Indeed.
The article pointed out that the Company’s own procedures had not been followed. The following is quoted from the article:
‘Last year, Marks & Spencer plc earned before-tax profits of £714.3 million – up almost 13 per cent on the previous year. In its annual report for 2011, chief finance officer Alan Stewart attributed this partly to the company’s focus on “building an efficient business, with prudent operating cost management”.’ 4 Electricity and asbestos are not new hazards.
5 Given that the preventive steps to both hazards are well known, it is legitimate to discuss the frustration of these types of incidents occurring without waiting for the details. There is – after all – a bigger picture here.
6 Government policy is based on a ‘myth’ as pointed out by ex Employment Minister Chris Grayling. Increasing 3 to 7 day reporting; getting rid of occupational disease reporting altogether from RIDDOR; exempting self employed who are no risk to themselves or other from H&S law; HSE deleting ‘lower risk’ activities from their inspection regimes to save money; introducing FFI to get more money for the Treasury; 35% slashing of HSE proactive inspections; the dire situation of many Local Authority’s enforcement regime – leave ‘low risk’ activities to concentrate on ‘high risk’ activities; and all the rest are based on no substantive evidence. It is an experiment.
Apparently M&S is one of the better retailers.
Nigel
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
The incident involved an electrician looking at a broken mircowave oven in the staff welfare facilities I presume the incident will be investigated by the Local Authority as retail premises not under the jurisdiction of the HSE
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.