Rank: Super forum user 
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We have a heated debate going on at present regarding the wedging open of doors with purpose made wedges and other items. I am saying this is not acceptable particularly in view of the vulnerability of the occupants and am suggesting that magnetic door closing devices must be used. Can anyone point me in the right direction towards any legal or other documentation that states this is unacceptable practice (or even better illegal). People know it is not right but they still persist. I would welcome some offical documentation (preferrably not a prohibition notice) to put in front of management to get them to see sense. Some fire safety awareness training is already in the pipeline. Thanks in advance.
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Rank: Forum user
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Morning Chas,
Can you provide a bit more information, my questions are: what sort of premises is it, what work is carried out on site, who are the vulnerable occupants, which doors are being propped open and why, is this to increase ventilation or convenience. Is it the fire doors that are being propped open or other doors.
How old is the building would the Building Regs 2000 Part B apply or the BS9999:2008?
Of course the other thing is what does your FRA say about the doors?
Regards Lisa
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Rank: Super forum user
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It's a sizable nursery in an old building. Doors from some rooms to the main corridor (and escape routes) are being kept open so that the kids can be watched when they leave the room to go to the washroom etc. Staff say if the doors are closed the kids may trap their fingers when going in and out, which is a fair comment and they say they will remove the wedges when the alarm is raised but quite frankly I cannot trust them to do that on every occasion. In my view their priority should on getting the kids out and the simplest (but more expensive) option is to use Maglocks or similar devices. I will probably win the battle in the end but would just like to make the journey easier by having some documentation to back me up, if there is any.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chas A good product available http://www.connevans.co....iewProduct.do?id=1972025 An issue with any type of devise that keeps a self closing wooden door open is the warping of the door, does take long time though. An advantage with the above product is that you can test the alarm at the end of each day and the doors propped open will close. As you pointed out you can't rely on someone removing a wedge when the alarm goes off.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What happens if the batteries fail or the firec alarm sounder fails to activate the closer? - Smoke travels throughout the premises. The situation needs to be managed by staff and training
SBH
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have used these and I think that they are a good problem solver in certain conditions such as yours. Not everyone likes them, but then not every one has issues such as under 5's trapping fingers in doors.
Flat batteries are not an issue. Replace them at regular intervals and you will not have a problem. Go for a design that fails to safety and needs a battery charge to remain latched in the open mode. A flat battery will prevent the door being held open.
Crack on.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I've reported planters, chairs and other items used to wedge open fire doors in several locations across the University campus. These scotching any benefit from mag-release devices and closers in the event of an alarm.
A call to the University Safety Office set off further alarms, when I was told that "it wasn't there responsibility, as they were there only to advise"!
How I resent that wishy washy cop-out that over the years has become the mantra of so many 'safety professionals'. Regrettably, it is still widely used.
Fortunately, the joys of a swift and well aimed kick, and a call to the Vice Chancellors office, got things fixed. And it works, since the next occasion that I had to report such an event it was dealt with tout suite.
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Rank: Forum user
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I suppose my first thought would be should children in a nursery be allowed to use the washroom unsupervised, especially if it is a different location from the main area??
If this is okay in the scenario then there are products on the market (hinge guards) that are fixed to the door to stop hands being trapped thus resolving the issues of trapped fingers.
Though mag locks are a good solution in some locations my concern in a nursery is that a sudden release of a door could easily hit a small child, especially a heavy fire door.
Another thought would be that a staff member opens the door when a child needs to use the 'facilities' and then remains at the door until the child has finished and returns, the door is then closed on return. Even if this is repeated many times throughout the day I would have thought that this is all part of the job.
If you need to convince managers then you should refer to the RRFSO requirement to take general fire precautions to ensure that the premises are safe including reducing the risk of fire spreading, and the findings of your FRA.
I don't think that Building Regs or BS would offer any weight unless there have been modifications to the building in recent years where either would apply.
Taking a step back do the rooms concerned pose a significant risk of a fire starting and spreading? If you have good fire risk management in place then the risk should be minimal, so are the wedges really an issue?
Obviously I don't know your premises so my last comment is made to suggest a different thought.
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Rank: Forum user
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