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lisar  
#1 Posted : 16 November 2012 15:35:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lisar

I am going to do a risk assessment for staff using the attached ladders to side of water tower to gain access to top as part of weekly servicing schedule.

One thing that worries me and maybe its because I only went a third of way up and felt sick and my hands were hurting on the rungs and the wind was blowing up my top- ok just wondered if you have same system if you have any form of safety harness or do you deem the ladders that have the casing around them to be safe to climb within their own rights. Personally I dont but maybe thats because I am too scared to climb them.

Whats your opinion
roshqse  
#2 Posted : 16 November 2012 15:55:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

LOL.. Love your description Lisa!

In my opinion, for what it's worth, this is going to be a high risk activity just on the basis of how often it is going to happen. Let alone anything else.

As far as the ladder casing / cage system is concerned I am sure I read somewhere only recently that these systems do not count in anyway towards controlling the risk.
In fact depending on how far apart the bars are they can increase the danger.
I would be looking for an engineering solution, coupled with personal fall arrest equipment and training in height awareness and safety for those tasked with the maintenance.

This company , http://www.latchways.com/home, can supply lots of different solutions.

However, is there NO way the task can be avoided? Remote sampling or monitoring equipment at ground level?
Clairel  
#3 Posted : 16 November 2012 16:18:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Actually no, you're part right roshqse. There is recent guidance that states that there is no evidence that hoops on ladders offer any additional safety. However, it also states that use of a harness and fall arrest with ladder hoops can increase the level of risk as the hoops interfere with the effectiveness of the fall arrest.

'Other' access sytems should be considered apparently but it doesn't say what those could be!!!
achrn  
#4 Posted : 16 November 2012 16:29:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Clairel wrote:
it also states that use of a harness and fall arrest with ladder hoops can increase the level of risk as the hoops interfere with the effectiveness of the fall arrest.


But it also says that if you have a fall arrest system installed, don't stop using it.

I've been through this recently, trying to actually find out what you're supposed to be doing if a staircase doesn't fit, but found the guidance to be full of if and maybes but remarkably empty of actual useful guidance.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/sa...letins/hoopedladders.htm
PH2  
#5 Posted : 16 November 2012 16:46:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PH2

Hi
I recommend that you Google "railok". This can be easily retrofitted to most industrial vertical ladders, and unlike the "cable" systems does not have to undergo expensive annual testing.

My previous employer had hundreds of sites (literally) that used combinations of both types of systems: local managers favoured the Railok system due to its initial costs, the fact that it could be fitted by our own mechanical engineers and there was no ongoing inspection testing costs.

I have no connection with this company: other manufacturers and suppliers are available.

Regarding the safety cages, I have never liked them at all (and was glad to see the HSE report on them) but I have found that the above fall arrest systems can be installed on ladders that have such cages.

PH2
David Bannister  
#6 Posted : 16 November 2012 18:05:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I'm struggling to understand why someone has to climb a tower every week.
johnld  
#7 Posted : 16 November 2012 19:31:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnld

Admittedly it is many years since I was involved with sprinkler system but I am hard pressed to think what might need a weekly inspection, unless someone has chosen to locate the control valves at the top of the tower.
Having said that whatever the inspection frequency something like the latch way system would be ideal having used it in the past.
MAT  
#8 Posted : 16 November 2012 19:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MAT

Hi Lisa

As you have probably already thought, would be better to avoid need to go up in first place. I am assuming there is a reason or valve etc that must be inspected.

How high are these ladders?

There are several suppliers of systems that may be interest to you,

http://www.scorpio-safety.co.uk/vertical.php

May need to copy and paste the link.

MAT
Zimmy  
#9 Posted : 16 November 2012 20:07:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Would a remote camera system help?

Some ladder systems have staging cages at certain levels for safety reason such as flood lighting etc.

Lisa. you're a star. wear a jacket! :-) and the same glasses as
Zephod. They turn black at the first sight of danger.
bob youel  
#10 Posted : 18 November 2012 15:56:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Just a reminder that when you risk assess U should also address the persons undertaking the work at the same time as its no use putting a person who is afraid of heights on a high job inclusive of a person who is trying to facilitate the risk asseessent for that job as if the facilitator does not like heights how can they fully facilitate that risk assessment?
Clairel  
#11 Posted : 19 November 2012 09:06:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

bob youel wrote:
if the facilitator does not like heights how can they fully facilitate that risk assessment?


What utter nonsense.
roshqse  
#12 Posted : 19 November 2012 10:00:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

Inclined to agree with you Clairel.

It's not neccessary to actually ' do ' a task to RA it.

I bet you could produce a fairly effective RA for firefighting sat at your desk without having to go and fight a fire?
The OP could write the RA and have someone who is happy to go up heights, or better still the staff member who will have to do the task regularly, to check it for gaps and suitability.

And I knew I had read something about the ladder 'hoops' but couldn't remember the details!
wclark1238  
#13 Posted : 19 November 2012 11:28:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wclark1238

I'm also wondering why the frequency of these inspections is so great. In a previous life I used to work on sprinkler systems.........for my sins.

In my experience most large water tanks come equipped with a gauge that provides an indication of how much water is present within the tank, these gauges are fitted at a low level and can be observed from the ground. Checking water level in the tank would be the only obvious thing to me that might warrant a weekly interval. The only other thing that needs - as far as I can think - a regular check that might require climbing to the top of the tank is the function of the ball valve that ensures that the tank level automatically gets topped up. In my experience a normal inspection interval for these would be twice per year.

If the frequency of climbing is reduced significantly perhaps the control measures required can be a little more modest?
Jake  
#14 Posted : 19 November 2012 11:45:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

The research report re ladder hoops can be found here:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr258.pdf

That said our sites have ladder hoops present, they were provided during installation (before my time). Interestingly, speaking with one of our roofing contractors when I spoke with him re the research report, he was strongly of the opinion that they are a benefit, if correctly installed, in that they can provide respite if required.

In any case, to provide a different view, we have above-ground sprinkler tanks at 2 of our sites, though these are not that high (maybe 6m) and not routinely accessed (only during contractor service which will either be 6 monthly or annual).

Hoop guards are installed but that's it. We don't feel it's reasonably practicable to remove the ladders and install new with fall protection devices attached, and they are not that long, therefore we have left as is, without issue (from users or EHOs that will have seen them during H&S inspections).

If our cat ladders had to be used more frequently we may come to a different conclusion though.
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