Depends what bone in the foot you are talking about.

A broken toe is not reportable. Set out in the ACOP.

Not so. I've broken my toes on several occasion. You can still continue normal activities. Healing time is irrelevant. It's whether it would either be classed as a major or whether normal duties could not be performed for 7 days.

No it doesnt, a fractured bone in the foot ( any bone) is reportable, but government authorities say it isnt.

Broken toes are not reportable as a major - fact.
The highest category they can therefore be reported under would be the 7 day rule if that becomes applicable.

Which

do you have in mind?

It isn't getting everyone is it? And nor do I think it is ambiguous. I assume that your query is whether this is reportable as a MAJOR injury? Claire has taken the trouble to point you in the right direction in that respect; have you taken the time to read that part of the guidance?

1. A broken TOE is NOT reportable as a major injury, per se (but see 3 below).
2. Any other broke bone in the foot would be reportable as a major injury
3. It would be reportable as a major injury in the event that the injury required an in patient stay in hospital of > 24 hours
4. It would be reportable if the injury prevented the IP from doing their NORMAL work for >7 days (not including the day of the injury)

I am not sure what other Government Authorities are advising you to the contrary, but at the end of the day the decision on whether to report or not is .................. yours.

Lloydc, I think it would be useful if you gave us some idea where the question has arisen from and your point of reference. Where as this is something that is relatively well understood by the folks posting here you may have been given info that affects your understanding.

Explain a little more so we've got a clearer picture.

I have read it, it is ambiguous, because NHS safety Departments , under their policy and procedures for RIDDOR report fractures of any bone except in the foot or hand, Ambiguity starts when government departments ignor other government departments , and have the power to issue light duties to their employees to avoid the lost time. You need to check this out before replying

Lloyd,

You're working with the wrong definition of finger and toe here I think. The "clinical" definition of finger bone includes those bone "normal" people would consider to be part of the hand.

Check out Wikipedia on the issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_bone

Using the above definition, it is easy to reconcile the two policies as long as the manager of the department in question is aware they areworking to the clinical definition.

Lloydcole

You are of course entitled to your opinion. But how CAN I check this out; I DON’T have access to the policy? Have you considered that?

You still haven’t indicated whether your query is in relation to whether this is a reportable MAJOR injury or whether it could lead to an over 7 day injury. As per my post at #12 it COULD be reportable as a major if ‘3’ was met and it COULD be reportable as an over 7 day injury if the criteria for that type of injury was met.

The guidance for RIDDOR couldn’t be any clearer. If the NHS policy is not to report ANY broken bone in the foot/hand (as a MAJOR injury) then I would say that their policy is wrong. I assume your example refers to employees rather than patients for which there are different reporting requirements. A policy cannot ‘override’ the law, guidance etc.

I have taken the time and trouble to provide you with an ACCURATE summary of the reporting requirements (for employees) that might relate to a broken toe (I didn’t include fatality as this seems a pretty remote possibility) – take it or leave it. But please don’t ask for assistance and then be so dismissive, ungrateful, and rude, just because you aren’t hearing what you want to hear. It does you no credit.

For your interest ‘light duties’ would still be reportable if the over 7 day criteria has been met, as this is NOT about being AWAY from work or off sick (whichever way you want to look at it), but about not being able to do your NORMAL work.

In this respect I don’t think that there is any AMBIGUITY in the REGULATIONS or the GUIDANCE. That an employer has a policy (to which again I don’t have access) that doesn’t ‘meet’ the regs/guidance, doesn’t make ‘it’ ambiguous; merely wrong.

Incidentally your original post if factually incorrect. I work for a ‘government authority’ and our policy is quite clear and in accordance with the regs/guidance. We DO/WOULD report broken bones in feet (other than toes) as a major injury, because, it IS reportable under the regs. I would also report a broken toe if this met the criteria for an over 7 day injury. It really isn’t difficult.

It’s interesting that others also appear to agree with my ‘assessment’ of the situation, and also agree that it isn’t ambiguous.

CAPS used for emphasis

The NHS does not have a policy on reporting accidents in hospitals under RIDDOR because they do not control the hospitals. Hospitals etc are run by NHS trusts, which are autonomous organisations. Guidance issued by the NHS Employers specifically refers to RIDDOR without any changes. The HSE have issued guidance on reporting under RIDDOR for the healthcare sector as there are some problems with interpretation but this not about bones in the foot. Whatever you may have seem or been told is wrong. I suspect that what may have happened is that someone in a hospital has not updated their policy as the previous edition of RIDDOR did not require fractures to the bones in the hands or feet was not reportable as a major injury.

You can check the guidance from NHS Employers via this link http://www.nhsemployers....handsafetystandards.aspx

Take care
John C

I seem to recall that in RIDDOR 1985 bones of the foot were also excluded from the definition of major injury (they were brought in by RIDDOR 1995). Perhaps this is the cause of any confusion? Maybe this particular NHS policy was just not updated correctly!