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Alan Armer  
#1 Posted : 28 November 2012 15:20:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alan Armer

I've managed to encourage a good culture on my site of 300 people to report any H&S related incident no matter how serious and no matter whether it’s a Near Miss or has caused harm. I am also pretty confident that we have a good reporting culture as the database we use also records other site issues such as those related to Facilities anomalies. This year has seen the overall reporting go up but those relating to H&S go down – in fact since locating to our site 12 years ago we have never had anything that would be reportable under RIDDOR.
Our cleaning and catering sub-contractor supplied me with 6 accident reports covering the past 4 months or so. All recorded very minor injuries (e.g. a scrape from cleaning round cabinets, and a minor splash from serving soup) of which only 2 needed attention - 1 in the form of a sticking plaster, and another (the soup) was put under cold water.

All well and good.

While I feel OK to maintain any incident records for which my organisation could be held responsible (e.g. poor lighting or maybe someone slipping on a pool from a leaking pipe that we haven’t maintained) as all of those passed to me today were as a result of misjudgement by the sub-contracting organisation (ie human error) I can't make my mind up whether to maintain their figures as part of our own site stats.

I’d welcome the benefit of your experience.
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 28 November 2012 18:57:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Alan

I would say it's good practice to keep a record on all accidents and incidents for a period of time.

Don't know the size of your company or how many sub-contractors you engage, but I would be more inclined to worry about not having a RIDDOR accident and incident in 12 years. It would not be the first time that incidents go unreported for a multitude of reasons. It might be interesting to do some homework on the lack of h&s reporting?

Ray

Chris Cahill  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2012 20:06:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris Cahill

I ensure we keep records of all accidents /incidents on our sites (Including subcontractors)

I have in the past used my records when checking a subcontractors competence and if they submit their records which show no accidents(reportable and non reportable) I have queried why I have recorded their accidents/incidents and they have not ?

This is usually the completion of the competence check!!
damelcfc  
#4 Posted : 29 November 2012 09:41:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

Im pretty sure Alan would know if he had had a RIDDOR or not! For a start someone is not at work that should be be!
Ok, so a real bad communication effort could make it possible that MrA is on holiday when infact he fell off a scaffold and broke his spine but really?
Possible but highly unlikely. The good reporting of all other incidents suggests to me that in no way would a RIDDOR slip under the mat.

Well done on your current 'days since' - must be huuuuge!
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 29 November 2012 11:44:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

A RIDDOR would not have to be a serious incident. Until the recenttly it was an over 3 day injury which could be quite minor and with 300 staff could easily go undetected by h&s.
damelcfc  
#6 Posted : 29 November 2012 11:53:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

RayRapp wrote:
A RIDDOR would not have to be a serious incident. Until the recenttly it was an over 3 day injury which could be quite minor and with 300 staff could easily go undetected by h&s.


Don't you see my point? Thats very, very poor if someone from 300 can be off for 3 days without the Safety Manager being told it was accident related.
It would be very poor line management/HR/H&S relations/communication - unless its an accepted practise to not have to phone in and give a reason why.

This should not be allowed to happen and really there should be a policy on this as ultimately failure to report could land a fine/bad rep and all the other stuff.

If a RIDDOR can go 'easily undetected' you have fundamental issues to sort and pronto!
Alan Armer  
#7 Posted : 29 November 2012 14:38:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alan Armer

Thanks for your replies. In context the site I am referring to is an office block housing approximately 300 people including resident sub-contractors (who primarily are for soft FM tasks such as cleaning and catering.) In reality a low risk environment in itself. However we have a number of engineers who regular visit both factories and off-shore locations which increases the risks to them.
When I took over H&S about 11 years ago practically nothing was reported but I invoked a number of active and re-active monitoring systems such as audits, management inspections (about 20 a year!!) plus monthly toolbox talks – yes even for office staff - and a consolidated 2 year period of training after which we have 37 staff with formal H&S training including two now at CMIOSH. I’m not trying to say we are better than anyone else but state this to show that I believe there are sufficient here to know when a RIDDOR is a RIDDOR. In the past 11 years we have had one 2 day LTA and I’m absolutely confident that’s it. What I am aware of is that we all – including our sub-contractors talk and know when people are out or off sick. However I accept that our current sub-contractor hasn’t (until now) been telling us if any of their staff were either hurt or involved in a near miss on my site. They do, however tell us when any are absent. What I do know is that if someone doesn’t report an incident, someone will either see them do it and tell me on their behalf (grass ‘em up) or will get talked into reporting it by the colleagues. We even had someone report a large orange bucket as a trip hazard even though it was put there to catch water dripping from a window frame during our recent storms.
What I didn’t say in my original question was that I WANT to include their stats with mine as we are all on the same site and one which I oversee.
I don’t have the same problems as the vast majority of sites but am happy to report that the 2 day LTA that we had was nearly 5 years ago. If I calculated the working hours its probably well in excess of a million without a reportable – but as I said I don’t have the same hazards as many of you so that’s relatively easy for me to achieve.

(Sorry if that’s strayed from the original question, but that was to do with shared reporting and not RIDDOR.)
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 29 November 2012 15:52:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

damelcfc wrote:
RayRapp wrote:
A RIDDOR would not have to be a serious incident. Until the recenttly it was an over 3 day injury which could be quite minor and with 300 staff could easily go undetected by h&s.


Don't you see my point? Thats very, very poor if someone from 300 can be off for 3 days without the Safety Manager being told it was accident related.
It would be very poor line management/HR/H&S relations/communication - unless its an accepted practise to not have to phone in and give a reason why.

This should not be allowed to happen and really there should be a policy on this as ultimately failure to report could land a fine/bad rep and all the other stuff.

If a RIDDOR can go 'easily undetected' you have fundamental issues to sort and pronto!


I am not commenting on the morality of non-reporting accidents and RIDDORS - what 'should' happen is not the same 'does' happen. Non-reporting of incidents is common place in my experience for a number of reasons, some quite genuine, whilst others are quite frankly insidious.
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