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spritlove  
#1 Posted : 03 January 2013 09:19:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
spritlove

I'd like to pick members brains as I have a gut feeling I'm right but want to check. We use tower scaffolds on base plates to gain access to balconies on the first and second floor. The balconies have wrought iron railings around them. We cannot gain access from inside the building by walking through the tenants property, the safety of operatives is a huge factor here. So, it was arranged that operatives would climb off the scaffold onto the balcony to undertake repairs etc. The scaffold was tied to the balcony but only with a webbing strap and the operatives were instructed to put on a harness (but failed to do this in some cases). I stopped this practice in the interim until I could determine a safer method. I wondered about building the tower up another lift, fixing it to the balcony parapet with proper scaffold ties and ensuring the gap between the scaffold and the balcony parapet was covered so the operatives effectively had to climb down onto the balcony. Oh, they also have to move substances and equipment onto the balcony via this route. When we access a roof we use a similar system with the tower built up to the gutter level and guard rails on the roof to the ridge to provide a fully enclosed and guarded work space. If this can be achieved to access the balconies I'd feel a lot more content. What do those in the industry think and do you have any designs that might work? Many thanks and Happy New Year all
roshqse  
#2 Posted : 03 January 2013 10:53:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

Without knowing the exact working environment.. I assume you have considered use of MEWPS? Are they no good? There isn't an easy solution to this and any solution has to be reasonable and practicable. I suppose the 'right' solution is a full scaffold tied to the building with all gaps closed etc etc.. but is that reasonable? If it is short duration works it would take longer to erect and dismantle the scaffold. Our guys often have to exit a MEWP (and sometimes towers) on to structures to remove mechanical fixings etc. and they do as you are considering:- Close gaps as far as possible, use twin tail lanyards hooking on and off as they go to an anchor point, and always step DOWN on to the structure... I assume your problem is that the men have to climb over the balcony railings with the obvious hazard of falling off during that? I think what you are considering is the best balance solution. I would go with it. Although you obviously still have a problem with men not using their harnesses? That may have to come down to discipline action?
frankc  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2013 12:07:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

spritlove wrote:
When we access a roof we use a similar system with the tower built up to the gutter level and guard rails on the roof to the ridge to provide a fully enclosed and guarded work space
My personal thoughts are the manufacturer of the tower would take exception to the way you assembled their product. These towers are made to be WORKING platforms, not ACCESS platforms and as such, there should be 4 guardrails on every level and NO climbing above or over the top guard rail. Wrong piece of kit for the job imo and you need a staircase that allows SAFE access from the ground to the working floor level like this. http://i147.photobucket....oon/Haki_zps1189dac3.png I've no affiliation with any manufacturer.
roshqse  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2013 12:29:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

But reasonable and practicable? I would be investigating the powered access route.
frankc  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2013 12:48:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

roshqse wrote:
But reasonable and practicable? I would be investigating the powered access route.
I would also go down that route. However, the fact they have used towers in the past makes me think it may not be practicable. This could be due to access problems as there may still be a need to climb over the railings using this method. One other potential problem for the OP is the use of harnesses. What does he expect them to attach to? The tower itself? Never The wrought iron railings? No. I'll assume the OP hasn't had them tested and they might even be the piece of equipment that requires work doing on them. More info please spritlove.
Zimmy  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2013 12:48:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I would use an Independant tied scaff. Forget the tower.
roshqse  
#7 Posted : 03 January 2013 13:08:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

Me too if it can be justified.. but if there are no suitable anchors for harnesses, or a MEWP can't get close enough or there is not enough space to manouvere it, and ladders are obviously no use here, Then a full scaff it is!
David Bannister  
#8 Posted : 03 January 2013 13:18:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Is it possible to go back to the beginning and seek access via the tenants portion? Whilst this would not be a complete solution it may at least reduce the frequency of exposure.
spritlove  
#9 Posted : 03 January 2013 13:29:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
spritlove

Thanks all. Yes you are correct, MEWPs are impractical as the area around the building has walls, fences etc. The work involves painting and repairs to rendering of the overhang of the balcony above so there is a limited gap in which to get a MEWP. Also not happy with climbing out of a MEWP for the same reasons not happy about climbing off a tower scaffold. The work duration is maybe only a day before the tower is moved to the next building (flats with two floors above ground floor) so a full scaffold would seriously delay the job. I agree the tower is designed to be worked from and not as an access route, does anyone know of something that would fit the bill? If the tower is built with an additional lift to enable climbing down onto the balcony, the height might not fall within the gap between the railings and the overhang above. I like the steps idea but they would still need to climb over the balcony railings. I don't think we could get around this, whatever means of access is found to be more suitable. Do the steps come in a "kit" form like towers? thanks
BernDaley  
#10 Posted : 03 January 2013 13:30:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BernDaley

Well depending how long & what type of maintenance it is what about access via abseil?
frankc  
#11 Posted : 03 January 2013 13:49:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

spritlove wrote:
I like the steps idea but they would still need to climb over the balcony railings. I don't think we could get around this, whatever means of access is found to be more suitable. Do the steps come in a "kit" form like towers? thanks
They wouldn't need to climb over the railings. There would be a platform above the railings and steps down to the balcony floor. Your guys wouldn't be able to assemble them without suitable training.
roshqse  
#12 Posted : 03 January 2013 14:03:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
roshqse

Then we are back to the problem of available space. Also the time to erect and dismantle? Would that be considered reasonable when a safe method can be found another way? I know it's not all about cost, but if you have assessed it, found the most suitable and reasonable method, issued strict instructions and training... ? I suppose removing the railings and replacing them is out of the question? Cut them off and weld or bolt them back on?
frankc  
#13 Posted : 03 January 2013 14:07:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

roshqse wrote:
Then we are back to the problem of available space.
This is where the request for more info is paramount. We can make all the suggestions in the world but without full info, we are all 2nd guessing. If it's not possible to post pictures up on here, let the OP PM people on this thread with photo's of the balcony area etc.
Ron Hunter  
#14 Posted : 03 January 2013 23:54:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

spritlove wrote:
We cannot gain access from inside the building by walking through the tenants property
Why not? Were I a tenant or owner/occupier, I'd allow you access rather than have the security of my propery compromised via a climbing frame accessible by any ne'er do well. In a domestic situation, there will be potential issues with the occupier's belongings on the balcony etc. and presumably some sort of prior communication and potential for dialogue. If this is common maintenance and repair then the tenancy agreement, lease or title deeds should allow reasonable access. "Reasonable" access should extend to access via the normal route?
spritlove  
#15 Posted : 04 January 2013 08:50:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
spritlove

We have been informed by the landlord that we cannot gain access to the property. Either the individual sleeps until mid afternoon and / or there are concerns around violence, drugs, alcohol, vicious guard dogs etc etc. The operatives would need additonal escorts even if they were allowed in or if the tenant is awkward and denies access it delays or prevents the job. All access scaffold has to be removed each night and re-erected each morning, nothing can be left accessible out of hours. You get a good mental picture of the area we're working in???????? I think, having read the responses that the main issue is that what we have is a working platform not an access method. I shall seriously consider the stepped scaffold and see what the scaffold designers have available as that looks like a distinct possibility. Thanks for the responses and assistance, much appreciated.
boblewis  
#16 Posted : 04 January 2013 11:31:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

We do get ourselves tied up with these towers as we can only see them as mobile/static towers and not what they actually are SECTIONAL Scaffold. Talk to the manufacturers and the experienced erectors and you will find they can be VERY adaptable. I have had mobile bridges over swimming pools built using it. Manufacturers have a range of designs that can be used in many situations so talk to them. Do not make the mistake however of transferring one manufacturers design to anothers pieces of kit!!!!! This equipment is designed for fast and fuss free erection and as long as you have the right items, generally not available for hire, and a drawing you should not go wrong. Bob
MEden380  
#17 Posted : 04 January 2013 15:45:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Spritlove What happens when your operative wakes up the grumpy bad tempered tenant who then lets his vicious dog out onto the balcony? There is clearly a safe path to the balcony through the building, tell the landlord to provide your team safe access or walk away from the job - not worth the hassle. When working for a housing association we had similar problems - we tended to go in with a minimum of three tradesmen plus housing officer.
Zimmy  
#18 Posted : 05 January 2013 18:44:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I'm with MEden380 on this. Been in a few when changing fuse boards. One asked 'You ok with dogs?' 'Yes' says I ' we rescue dogs from time to time' 'Nice one mate' as he lets a pair of full-on pit bulls into the room (as it happens, they were sweet, but you get the idea). The dogs were fine, the tenant a dope dealer!!!
MrH&S  
#19 Posted : 05 January 2013 19:07:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrH&S

Firstly, you have identified a hazard, was this whilst you were carrying out the RAMS. Secondly, any scaffold structure tied to a building & oner a certain height should be designed. Also the tower tied with straps, this is a concern, who ties the straps, if there were an accident I feel the organisation is leaving themselves open to a substantial claim, as they must provide suitable access & egress to the workplace & must provide the appropriate equipment. I would stop the works & carry out a thorough Risk assessment, create a method statement, taking into account the Work at height regs, Harness should only be used as a last resort. MrH&s
firesafety101  
#20 Posted : 07 January 2013 09:08:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

It seems to me that the client is not being helpful and I would walk away from this job, too complicated and means taking risks.
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