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bilbo  
#1 Posted : 09 January 2013 13:29:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

Can anyone provide any guidance or pointers please - we are repeatedly isolating pseudomonas from the routine sampling and despite shock dosing, filter sand change, backwashing, shock dosing and more shock dosing the problem recurs.
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 09 January 2013 13:47:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Bilbo, somewhat tangential I know, but could this be associated with flexible hoses - the agreed "culprit" in legionella counts in spa baths etc.?
As you're in healthcare, you'll likely have direct access to the NHS Alert history documenting that.
HSSnail  
#3 Posted : 09 January 2013 13:59:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Bilbo

have a little experience with pseudomonas problems in spa pools. What are you shock dosing with? Is it just the standard disinfectant you use (usually Chlorine of Bromine) but just higher levels, I've seen that tried and does not often do the job. Usually need a specific bio film cleaner of some description to get to the route of the problem.

Hope that helps
Hutchison43088  
#4 Posted : 10 January 2013 09:37:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hutchison43088

Its been a while since I sat my Pool Plant Operators COurse but have you cleaned your balance tank where the water is held before going into the spa and checked the incoming supply? Had a problem with a spa years ago and it was because the balance tank han't been cleaned propely. Sand change for a filter is an expensive business. Is the water balanced with correct TDS readings and is the pool a plastic tub or tile? There are may factors that can cause a failure in readings.

Shock dosing only only boosts the levels but then drop off and you have the problem of total chroline and combined readings being high which then can make the water cloudy if not diluted enough later on esp if air gets into the system which can happen if shock dosing by hand.
bilbo  
#5 Posted : 10 January 2013 13:56:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

Thanks for your offerings folks - just to clarify this is a hydrotherapy pool not a spa; filter sand change was due anyway; pool emptied and cleaned, refilled woith fresh water, WHOLE system shock dosed with usual disinfectant, including incoming supply pipework. balance tanks, filter tanks - system run through six cycles pH balanced and disinfectant level corrected. Weekly microbiology tests clear for 3 consecutive weeks - then a positive for pseudomonas.

Still open to further advice.
Canopener  
#6 Posted : 10 January 2013 22:16:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I am not sure if I can add much to what has already been said really. Pseudomonas can colonise systems including filter media, thrive in bio films within the system and can be resistant to disinfection. But it can also be introduced from outside the system, such as being transferred by poor hygiene practices such as wearing of outdoor footwear or similar. If you are you using a flocculant, could the infection be being 'protected' from disinfection within the 'mass' and then serving to reinfect? Also is your pH control at the correct level to ensure effective disinfection? Other than that I am a bit stumped - and grasping at straws. Sorry.
bilbo  
#7 Posted : 11 January 2013 10:40:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

Thanks canopener - I too am clutching at straws - willing to try anything as the pool has now been closed for 2 months. I would add that the pool entry is protected with an "airlock" any outdoor shoes are not permitted past this point. The poolside is cleaned daily using pool water, there is pre and post bathing showering regime in place and is rigidly enforced. Routine daily pool water tests indicate disinfection rate and pH is fine. There is something I am missing somewhere - I just can't put my finger on it! Thanks again to all.
David Bannister  
#8 Posted : 11 January 2013 12:38:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I have no knowledge of the subject matter and was reading the thread for education.

A thought has occurred, apologies if nonsense: If your preventive and correction measures are OK, is it possible that the biological contamination is being introduced as part of the sampling or analytical process?
Xavier123  
#9 Posted : 11 January 2013 13:17:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

I'd like to back-up one of the previous comments.

Pseudomonas is infamous for surviving within a biofilm. Shock-dose as much as you like but it probably won't finish off an established biofilm within the pipework or some valve/surface within the system. You should double-check whether an appropriate bio-dispersant is being used as part of the specific cleaning process in addition to your disinfectant. It wouldn't be normal to have it regularly dosed but would seem valid in this instance - re-occuring positive samples after a fallow period screams of bio-film to me.

Chlorine/bromine are wonderful at attacking the bacterial cells they can get to in 'open' water. Biofilms partly exist to protect the bacteria and the halogen compounds are not penetrative, certainly not to the point of finishing off a decent biofilm. A good bio-dispersant should 'lift' them off the surface they're on though and make them available for the oxidising biocide to attack.
bilbo  
#10 Posted : 11 January 2013 13:18:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

david - thanks for that - we had established quite early on that the physical process of sampling might be at fault and addressed this - this has been observed to be OK. The analysis is undertaken at the Public Health Laboratory - the Consultant Microbiologist is confident of the processes there.
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 11 January 2013 13:26:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Bilbo
Apologies if I have misunderstood what is happening and if you have done this already;
As I understand it, what you have been doing is cleaning the pool and the associated equipment, and then testing the pool water to see if you are getting a Pseudomonas count. Have you tried to take swabs from the areas where you thing the contaminant is coming from eg the pipework etc? That way you can close in on the suspected area and eliminate the OK areas.
Have you checked the water supply for contamination?
Are you actually culturing the samples are you relying on a test kit?
If it’s test kit there could be a problem with false positives.
You need to talk to a environmental microbiologist.
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