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CraigEls  
#1 Posted : 10 January 2013 14:51:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

Hi Guys & Gals, I have recently had two emergency lights installed above fire exits by an electrician, I then produced two shiny new fire exit signs. The electrician informed me that I could not use the signs as new regulations state that the light must have a sign on is. He stated that a transparent sticker would need to be obtained and stuck over the glass of the light. Is this correct and if so where can I obtain the stickers from. Thanks in advance.
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 10 January 2013 14:58:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Where do these ‘new regulations’ come from? Do they appear overnight like mushrooms with no publicity, no consultation and no comment except from some tradesman trying to sell you something.
stonecold  
#3 Posted : 10 January 2013 15:01:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

The advice is incorrect...the signage must be illuminated by the emergency light fitting but there is no need for a sticker over the actual light, as long as the light from the fitting illiuminates the sign you will be fine. So just make sure the light fitting is near enough to your signage so when its lit you can see the sign! hmm hope that makes sense
damelcfc  
#4 Posted : 10 January 2013 15:03:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

The 'stickers' you refer to came in the box as supplied - sure our fitters use the usual sources for thier bits n bobs - RS catalogue, City Electrical Factors and the like - check in the box!
CraigEls  
#5 Posted : 10 January 2013 15:20:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

Thanks for the responses. A Kurdziel. Must admit I try and keep informed of changes but wasn’t sure if it was one I missed. Stonecold. This was my understanding but thought better to check. damelcfc. No stickers in the box unless electrician pinched them to sell them back to me at a latter date. (that was a joke, better state that before the solicitors letter comes in for liable)
Zimmy  
#6 Posted : 10 January 2013 15:32:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Zimmy  
#7 Posted : 10 January 2013 15:33:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I hope you find it useful. If I get the time I'll post later Rob
Zimmy  
#8 Posted : 10 January 2013 15:58:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

messyshaw  
#9 Posted : 10 January 2013 17:43:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

zimmy wrote:
http://rainbowsigns.hubpages.com/hub/Fire-Exit-Signs-Laws-and-Legislation-in-the-UK
Beware of websites attached to companies selling products. This link contains misleading information and is badly written For example - what the hell is this supposed to mean?.................... "...In a building each door that is used as the final exit point for the evacuation of people from it when a fire occurs should have a fire exit sign above them. Plus there must also be one situated at the main entrance along with the fire exit doors from the relevant areas in the building. Plus other fire exit signs should be situated above the doors that lead into and out of every room in the building...." It's gibberish and is wrong. There 'must' be a sign over the main entrance? - wrong. Plus signs 'above doors that lead in and out of every room in the building' - Absolute tosh. How about this one?...................... "....In many cases today companies are now investing money in purchasing photoluminescent signs as these glow in the dark, especially if they cannot afford to install emergency lighting...." The biggest building I look after is about 250,000m2 and has almost 4000 people in it at peak times. We are facing cuts. This website is saying we can get rid of our expensive EL and replace it with glow in the dark signs. - That's dangerous advice! I tend to steer clear of advice from suppliers. Some info is great (Coopers Emergency Lighting's site is good), but some others is clearly aim at increasing sales. I will let you make your own mind up about the one feature in the above post
Zimmy  
#10 Posted : 10 January 2013 19:21:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

mmmmmm, Loads of veg but no meat. The Health and Safety (Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations i, SI 341, introduced in 1996 to enact the EU Signs Directive ii, required that all text-only fire safety signs (i.e. EXIT or FIRE EXIT signs) produced to comply with BS 2560 should be replaced by 24th December 1998 with the pictogram format “running man” signs http://www.delta-electri...ergencyLightingGuide.pdf
Zimmy  
#11 Posted : 10 January 2013 19:29:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Sorry for any to have lead anyone on a wild one here. lack of time.Should have closed the old mouth.
Zimmy  
#12 Posted : 10 January 2013 19:30:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Why not ask the local fir service?
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 10 January 2013 19:55:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Zimmy  
#14 Posted : 10 January 2013 20:03:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Perhaps a bit more help would be preferred rather than just sitting on ones bottom. As ever, some people have a pop at 'Tradesmen' selling something when all they offer in return is a a study in Oxometery.
Canopener  
#15 Posted : 10 January 2013 20:26:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

14 posts and only 7 from Zimmy - so far! I think Stonecold at 7 'has it', doesn't he/she?
stonecold  
#16 Posted : 11 January 2013 07:50:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

HE..;-)
John M  
#17 Posted : 11 January 2013 10:35:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

The above referenced documents should not be relied upon as authoritative and current guidance . It is dated, referring to repealed or revoked legislation. Anyone preparing documents or work procedures without or not studying current applicable legislation or guidance /best practice is simply not competent. What really amazes me on these forums is the amount of people seeking proper regulatory advise and or guidance from the general membership. Would it not be more appropriate and indeed safer to get the information from the IOSH legal helpline . Other organisations have and operate such a facility very successfully. Although I accept that some people try to be helpful by assisting others such "assistance" might be very questionable as thus exposed in this thread. Jon
Heather Collins  
#18 Posted : 11 January 2013 10:47:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

If we must quote a link why not try this one https://www.gov.uk/workp...-safety-advice-documents and look at the appropriate guidance document? Exactly as Stonecold has already said there is no requirement for signs to be actually on the lighting units. The Guidance says they must have adequate illumination to be visible and legible and that this can be provided either internally (i.e. the sign stuck to the lighting unit) or externally (i.e. the light from the unit shining on the sign.) As ever be very careful about taking fire safety advice from companies who sell fire safely equipment. However good they are, they have a vested interest in selling you stuff.
Kim Hedges  
#19 Posted : 11 January 2013 12:29:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

messyshaw wrote:
zimmy wrote:
http://rainbowsigns.hubpages.com/hub/Fire-Exit-Signs-Laws-and-Legislation-in-the-UK
Beware of websites attached to companies selling products. This link contains misleading information and is badly written For example - what the hell is this supposed to mean?.................... "...In a building each door that is used as the final exit point for the evacuation of people from it when a fire occurs should have a fire exit sign above them. Plus there must also be one situated at the main entrance along with the fire exit doors from the relevant areas in the building. Plus other fire exit signs should be situated above the doors that lead into and out of every room in the building...." It's gibberish and is wrong. There 'must' be a sign over the main entrance? - wrong. Plus signs 'above doors that lead in and out of every room in the building' - Absolute tosh. How about this one?...................... "....In many cases today companies are now investing money in purchasing photoluminescent signs as these glow in the dark, especially if they cannot afford to install emergency lighting...." The biggest building I look after is about 250,000m2 and has almost 4000 people in it at peak times. We are facing cuts. This website is saying we can get rid of our expensive EL and replace it with glow in the dark signs. - That's dangerous advice! I tend to steer clear of advice from suppliers. Some info is great (Coopers Emergency Lighting's site is good), but some others is clearly aim at increasing sales. I will let you make your own mind up about the one feature in the above post
Perhaps IOSH could inform Trading Standards?
JohnW  
#20 Posted : 11 January 2013 13:11:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

zimmy wrote:
Why not ask the local fir service?
Well zimmy, I expect they would be useful at Christmas for Christmas trees, but not sure they'd be a good source of fire exit advice :o)
Zimmy  
#21 Posted : 11 January 2013 14:15:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Nice one JW :-) Post No.1 asked for help, I just posted some sites that may have been useful. At the time I had other things to do than carry out research into the topic. I simply tried to help the poster on that's all. If the designs are looked at you may well find that they could be described as good practice. I don't recall saying that they were regulations. I certainly didn't suggest that the sites were a safe source of legislation. And stop picking on me I'm only small
messyshaw  
#22 Posted : 11 January 2013 15:56:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

Zimmy: Asking the fire service for advice is fraught with difficulty. I was a fire service inspecting officer for many years and enjoyed my days as 'duty officer' taking calls from punters and given advice. However, some of my colleagues hated it as they felt out of their comfort zone. Many were so called 'civvy staff' recruited from the street and trained in how to carry out audits - but not risk assessments What's the difference I hear you cry? Imagine the difference between a top chef and a food critic: One has trained for years and practised his/her craft to source the top quality ingredients, prepare the food, measure, fold, mix, knead, blend and cook the food, then train and inform others, to be an all round professions - Thats the Chef and Risk assessor The other is a failure from journalist's college who eats free food and then writes a critical report about it for a living - That's the food critic & (generally) the fire service enforcement auditor Who would you go to for advice?
RO  
#23 Posted : 11 January 2013 16:39:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RO

I heard that Exit signs were on the way out............. Its friday.
Canopener  
#24 Posted : 12 January 2013 10:23:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Sharks I fear others may have missed it, but for me .......................absolutely brilliant !
Graham Bullough  
#25 Posted : 12 January 2013 11:18:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

To add some more mirth, of an arboricultural nature, the head of the local fir service is apparently called Douglas. Some people might also disbelieve the rumour that his parents had originally named him Pseudotsuga. However, he disliked the fact that it means 'false hemlock', and furthermore thought that 'Douglas' would be much easier to say and spell ! :-)
chris42  
#26 Posted : 12 January 2013 14:41:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

quote=sharks]I heard that Exit signs were on the way out............. Its friday.
But isn't the new going out staying in, so overall I think that means they are still required.
Zimmy  
#27 Posted : 12 January 2013 16:50:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

:-)
lisar  
#28 Posted : 12 January 2013 20:52:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lisar

I've used the photo luminescent ones. Even bought rolls of tiny left and right pictures. Accounts queried why I'd spent £80.00 on tape
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