Rank: Forum user
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Hi all - we have had an accident in one of the showrooms whereby the customer is planning to sue. The situation is now clear and is as below. He walked into one of the automatic doors. The automatic door was out of order at the time and a notice was displayed at eye level to say OUT OF ORDER, PLEASE USE OTHER DOOR with a directional arrow. The glass in which he walked displayed the sign but was also the side of the double door that wouldn't normally open. He cut his lip and had a red mark on his face. He became very aggressive with the staff at the time but they behaved very professionally and asked if he needed first aid assistance which he refused. They also advised of the issues which could come from a bump on the head i.e. Concussion accident book completed of which he took a copy. Two questions really - 1) do you think he would have a case in your opinion (I don't think so personally) and secondly, we have completed an accident investigation, made a few changes i.e. Door repaired and visual strips to be fitted to the doors. 2) do you have a template or can you point me in the right direction regarding witness statement format? Or would a signed note from the witness suffice? as always - any help appreciated.
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Rank: Forum user
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I suggest that you inform your insurers as they will deal with any potential claim, please note that until a formal claim is received there is very little you can do. With regards to witness statement, they can be written up by hand or computer as long as they are signed and dated they should be ok, again your insurers will be able to advise.
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Rank: Forum user
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thanks paul will ask insurers.
thanks again
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Rank: Super forum user
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Daisy, Paul is 100% correct - simply put the matter in the hands of your insurers. In fact it is worth notifying them of any "serious" incidents/accidents immediately. From a Public Liabiltiy perspective serious is a pretty loose term but would include (obviously) any incidents where customers are dispatched to hospital or are provided with transport home e.g. taxi. Obviously any involvement of the enforcing authority makes an incident serious. In addition if the customer makes any requests for information - either at the time or later - this could indicate they are thinking of making a claim, so notify. Finally, if the injured person is any way "stroppy" then let your insurers know.
Slightly contrary to what Paul suggested insurers may well carry out an investigation before a formal letter of claim is received. If the incident is deemded likely to result in a claim insurers will collect evidence e.g. state of repair of buildings, machinery etc, state of the weather e.g. for weather related slips and also identify witnesses and collect statements.
Hope that helps Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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Daisy,
He probably will claim as this in the norm these days in retail - with regards handling of the situation e.g. first aid advice provided, aggression this make no difference what so ever to any potential claim.
A claim will succeed if it can proved you were somehow negligent which caused his injury - you wont know how to react until you get the letter of claims as this version will differ from the stores (most likely).
The key to this as I see it from the info provided is what does it say on the accident book copy? If any 'naivety' was shown in completing this and you have provided a copy, the injured person will simply provide this to his solicitor and a claim will but built around this information. The lesson being never provide documentation to third parties in these circumstances.
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Rank: Forum user
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Makes no difference if documentation is provided to third party at the time of the incident, it will be obtained at some stage of the proceedings anyway. If a claim is pursued the claimant's solicitor will request a list of documents. This list is likely to include copy of accident report, copy of F2508 (if reportable), copy of minutes of health & safety committee meeting where accident was discussed, and a whole load of other stuff which may or may not exist. There is a duty to disclose such documents when they are requested.
Phil W
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Rank: Super forum user
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Phil, of course it make a difference to the claim how could it not? If info is provided/ documented that not been thought out then a claim will be built around this information and you could be on the back foot before you start any defense?
We've all seen accident book entries haven't we which are inaccurate due to little consideration being applied to what's been written down at the time.
Yes information must be disclosed when a claim is received but why disadvantage yourself especially as I note 'what had been written down at the time'.
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Rank: Super forum user
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It's also about the flow of information and your organisation's preparedness in dealing with claims.
Clearly it is advantageous for you to know it's coming and build a defence file in advance of the letter of claim.
An accident form is the property of the organisation, and we also adopt the policy that these are not given out at the time. If an IP requires a copy of their accident report, they are required to request in writing and we will send this to them. This is in part due to our internal data protection policy whereby employee names need to be blanked out, but we'd have this policy anway so that we know when an accident form is requested and that a claim is clearly forthcoming.
Re witness statements, quotiong our insuers "statements taken at the time of the incident are worth their weight in gold". It doesn't matter if its typed or handwritten, but you should aim to have procedures in place for the gathering of statements at the time of the accident, not x weeks later when investigation for a civil defence.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Daisy, To answer a question that you have not asked but is sort of implied; I would suggest developing a procedure for accidents and incidents with a check list of what to do, what to fill in, where to record and who to contact. Provide it to each of your stores/outlets or whatever in a BIG RED FILE and brief staff. This could be a stand alone document or part of the Business Recovery Plan or whatever you currently have. If you have this already then I misunderstood the question, if not, it's an idea, Jim
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Rank: Forum user
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Phil Grace
In response to you reply I am well aware that the insurers may well carryout preliminary investigations dependant on the likelihood of a claim, but I did state that there is very little that the company can do and so is best left to the insurers.
Regards
Paul
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Rank: Forum user
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thanks all - very useful information as usual - lots of ideas some in place some not so thanks v much.
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Rank: Forum user
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Daisy
It may be worth asking your insurers for a list of typical events that they expect to be reported, we have such a document that sets out items such as any RIDDOR reportable incidents, head injuries etc.
Regards
PaulR
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Rank: Super forum user
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Paul, I am sorry that you saw fit to challenge my perhaps unfortunate choice of words. I was simply trying to explain what insurers might decide to do ahead of a formal claim being intimated.
You said in your second posting “….but I did state that there is very little that the company can do and so is best left to the insurers.”
As several other posters have commented the dutyholder/firm/business can still make a useful contribution ahead of any intervention by the insurer. For example, collecting witness names (and addresses or contact details), collecting statements, taking photographs etc. Providing guidance for local store management in what action to take in the event of an incident is a very worthwhile exercise. Regards Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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The accident form has the first aiders name and address on it, I'm not sure you should be allowing members of the public to have that, different if solicitors have it.
You may also want to consider what employees write on these forms. We used to allow employees to fill them in, but encouraged the first aider to do it. This was because that one employee had written spinal injury, when they had just pulled a muscle. Spinal injury conjures up something far worse. Customers probably have a narrow range of injuries, so perhaps you should agree certain phrases.
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Rank: Forum user
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Daisy,
Sorry for coming into the discussion so late, but I don't get much of an opportunity to take part in the Forum these days.
As somebdody who deals with legal issues on behalf of clients I have a number of points that I don't think have yet been covered but which nontheless may be of benefit to you:
i. It does matter what the format of the statement is if it is to be used in litigation. You can take a statement in any format you want and there are benefits in getting statements quickly, but unless it complies with the requirements of the Civil Proceedure Rules it will have to be re-drafted before it can be entered in evidence. This means having to go back to the witness, who by that stage may have changed their mind, refuse to give a second statement, etc. It would be better if the statement can be drafted correctly in the first place. Plenty of templates, etc. available on the internet and training is available in taking statements (may be available free from your insurer/solicitor).
ii. At the time of taking the statements you need to warn staff that in giving the statement they may be required to give evidence (by being cross-examined) in court.
iii. Witness statements must be fact only and they cannot include "expert" evidence or opinion.
iv. Statements taken by the company before solicitors are instructed to handle the claim do not carry legal privilege and therefore must be disclosed to the claimant whether or not you decide to use that witness.
v. I would therefore suggest that a lot of thought needs to be given and consultation undertaken with your insurer/solicitors before you develop any policy on taking statements.
vi. Finally, you should always be aware that anything you do that materially affects your insurer's ability to defend/manage a claim can give the insurer the right to avoid the claim. It is therefore well worth getting them on board re any policy/practice.
I hope this helps.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Daisymaisy
I wanted to come at this from another angle and one that might be more disconcerting. Firstly I would ask what you mean that it was the door that does not normally open? It sounds to me in reading this that only one of the pair normally opens and thus the sign could have been misleading to a regular customer. I also think you need to look closely and clearly at the value of a mere sign saying Use Other Door - The UK does not regard a sign saying Do Not Put Your Hand Into Moving Parts as an effective measure so why should it be effective in your situation? What if the Customer cannot read? Whose eye level are you referring to? Was the text large enough to be noticed? Was the colouration sufficient to catch the eye of the average shopper in idling mode mentally as they come in? Why could not a physical barrier be erected?
I am sorry to say but the average litigation solicitor will macerate any defence you may have. Yor main doorway is out of order, possibly through a failure to adequately maintain, regardless of how often you service it. This is one of those absolute duties - if it fails it was not adequately maintained regardless of servicing - it simply is that the maintenance was inadequate and failed to spot the developing defect.
Bob
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Rank: Forum user
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boblewis wrote:Daisymaisy
I wanted to come at this from another angle and one that might be more disconcerting. Firstly I would ask what you mean that it was the door that does not normally open? It sounds to me in reading this that only one of the pair normally opens and thus the sign could have been misleading to a regular customer. I also think you need to look closely and clearly at the value of a mere sign saying Use Other Door - The UK does not regard a sign saying Do Not Put Your Hand Into Moving Parts as an effective measure so why should it be effective in your situation? What if the Customer cannot read? Whose eye level are you referring to? Was the text large enough to be noticed? Was the colouration sufficient to catch the eye of the average shopper in idling mode mentally as they come in? Why could not a physical barrier be erected?
I am sorry to say but the average litigation solicitor will macerate any defence you may have. Yor main doorway is out of order, possibly through a failure to adequately maintain, regardless of how often you service it. This is one of those absolute duties - if it fails it was not adequately maintained regardless of servicing - it simply is that the maintenance was inadequate and failed to spot the developing defect.
Bob yes - all noted Bob and already covered, the manager put the sign up and we have now made sure all amangers aware and that all doors have the required safety strips where needed. the door was out of order and the engeiner arrived the following day. All doors all sites now covered and all in hand thanks for your help.
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