We have recently been told by a Contractor Accreditation outfit that Asbestos Awareness Refresher training MUST be UKATA approved. UKATA deny that this is the case - I have spoken to them and they confirm that there is no requirement to have UKATA approved refresher training (asbestos)

The HSE is quite clear on the requirements for refresher training. They say it can be a structured update training session or a short toolbox talk refreshing experienced workers of the main principles/ expectations. The training should be tailored to meet the training needs.

It would now appear that at least one of these accreditation outfits are making a mockery of the HSE and UKATA by demanding it be UKATA approved. Moreover, they are demanding that the training materials i.e TBT be uploaded to their electronic systems together with signatures of candidates.

This is a sinister and dangerous development. To allow this to go unchecked there is a real risk of training providers (both in house and consultants) training materials to be available to persons who have no right to such documents or materials and therefore a huge risk of being sold off or passed on.

Jon

Find another Accreditation body. Inform them you will be forwarding concerns in writing to both UKATA and HSE. Your training materials are your intellectual property and need not be divulged to third parties.

Although the Asbestos Regs state you should NOT have the same training year on year, many clients insist on UKATA as a minimum and as such, their contractors just renew it every 12 months. I know of two companies who are paying for UKATA Asbestos Awareness Training next Saturday and the Saturday after for the same groups who received it almost 12 months ago to the day.
Surprised no one has challenged the 12 month validity yet.

I agree that the HSE stance on refresher training at least once every 12 months is unfortunate; particularly so when they dilute the acceptable 'training' requirements to a TBT. Reg. 10(2) CAR 2012 does not identify a particular period - it provides for information, instruction and training to be given at regular intervals.

However, my immediate concern relates to the imposition of highly questionable pre qualification requirements to deliver up confidential company information, records and training materials.
Unless this information is delivered up in advancement no progress on an "assessment" will be made.

It is a fact that at least one of these outfits can sell on data to other organisations. I know for a fact that our company data & property rights have been made available to our competitors and have even appeared on a competitor's web page .


Jon

I have raised this point with the HSE. They are aware of what is going on and have recorded my concerns.

The bottom line is with one of these asseement outfits is:-

deliver up the training and other privileged documents failing which your application is going nowhere.

Jon

Firstly, UKATA is an association that was formed only a few years ago by some of the asbestos contractors and some others.
There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever to have this associations training as any mandatory requirement.

I’ve sat three of their courses (different suppliers) over the last few years to ascertain what each was providing and noted the following:

Huge inconsistency in relation to each organisation (detail & knowledge).
One presenter/trainer knew almost nothing on the subject matter.
Another presenter made up information that was incorrect.
The third organisation had a trainer who couldn’t get the information across due to their limited knowledge and understanding (teaching off a script).

The regulations require that suitable and sufficient training is undertaken and what needs to be covered is in the previous 2006 ACoP (no new 2012 asbestos ACoP as yet).

The HSE through its WWT Group (Working Well Together) have been providing FREE training throughout the UK on asbestos. The two main courses are the asbestos awareness (general) half day course and a full day management course. Even enforcement officers have been sent on some of the one day management courses!

These have been supplied by consultancies (non UKATA) that HSE have recommended through their websites.

Nearly all these providers have made the same recommendations for refresher training e.g. within 3 years.

I agree Paul.

I provide Asbestos Awareness to a contractor who does interior work for a large pub organisation, the client (who has an ACM prosecution history) appoved my training because it was specific to the work, it included quotes from the client's own policy, it includes a good photo gallery, it includes samples to look at - double-bagged :o) a Flowchart what-to-do if slight or significant dust found, and a written test of 12 multiple choice questions.

1.5 hours session, I charge for 2 hours time and gave to 15 people at once, which saved the contractor several hndred pounds.

The clients' contractor assessment company insists on annual ACM awareness refresher session. For this I run through a 20mins refresher session and the flowchart, they re-sit the test. I charge for 1 hour, again saving the contractor hundrds of pounds.

The lst time I did the refresher the students suggested I re-word one ambiguous questions/answers - I agreed! :o)

John M,

That may have happened, I was told the client needed to approve the training material (and they had submitted their ACM policy for me to include quotes from) but it may also have ended up at the pre-qual company.

Well, I still have the refresher business every year, but, having got it down to less than 1 hr session, it's not a money-spinner :o))