Have a bit of a tricky situation that the great minds out there might be able to help me with.

The situation is, we have, as many places do, a number of fire doors within our buildings, ranging from 30 to 60 minute ratings. They are the usual things, timber construction mainly, Georgian wired windows in some, self closers, intumescent strips etc.

We contract out our FM services and following a bit of an audit today, I have encountered poor evidence that inspection of the fire doors to ensure they remain fit for purpose is being retained by the service provider.

After much debate, we have met a bit of an impasse. Their stance is that they have not received the relevant training to make them competent in such inspections. My position is that they are qualified and experienced FM people with a range of skills (mechanical etc.) that should equip them with the necessary "competencies" to undertake basic visual inspections on operability, function and damage assessments etc.
Clearly there are contractual discussions that will need to run alongside this. But in the meantime.... what do others do about this sort of situation?

Is there a course available that would formally qualify people in being able to spot damage to a fire door?

I tend to take a slightly more simplistic view. Fire doors are by their nature quite robust. It takes a lot to damage a door, and the issues tend to be those that are readily spotted by local employees and management who SHOULD be undertaking regular and formal workplace inspections.
Fire doors should shut (and someone should check that those held open on electromagnetic latches close PROPERLY when the alarm activates. Intumescent strips should be present and secure.
In short, if I show some people with a modicum of common sense what something is supposed to look like, they can tell me if anything changes. (i.e. a Workplace Safety Checklist and a bit of supporting guidance).

The same principle applies to asbestos condition monitoring - I don't have to be an ACM expert to know that something has deteriorated, i.e. changed?

I too agree with Ron and have faced similar problems in a PFI arrangement with a FM provider

I made a door checklist & rota with a set 'audit' frequency which took into account the risk critical fire doors, such as those which protect staircases and high fire risk spaces. Such doors attract weekly inspections, while others are formally inspected every two months

I believe people work better when they understand the rationale as to why a rule or instruction has been given (well I do!). Therefore I designed a short presentation for the FM workers (chippies) and their managers about fire doors, and how important they are in maintaining fire separation. Plus how fire separation provides that all important time to allow people to escape and keeps the fire contained making it easier for fire crews to deal with.

The presentation was informal, pragmatic and caused some amusing and lively debate. The result is that regular checks are now being made. In fact it was the FM suppliers carpenters who suggested they join me in a walk round of the different parts of the very large building during the weekly fire alarm test to ensure automatic fire doors are closing properly.

“MartinW wrote
I recently attended a NAHFO meeting, the first I have been to. It was in London and the main presenters were from an organisation whose name I forget - it is in my office and I was working from home today.
The main presenter from this organisation said that he had just successfully completed a diploma in fire door inspection, which I hope I am representing correctly from memory.
I will get in touch with the bloke on Monday and will pass the details to you on this forum when I get them.
cheers
Martin”


A Fire Door Inspection Scheme has been launched by

http://www.fdis.co.uk/qualify-with-fdis/diploma

“This FDIS education programme is a series of online education modules which can studied in your own time and wherever it's most convenient for you. The FDIS Diploma examination can be taken at a local centre.

The Diploma holder can proudly demonstrate that your knowledge of fire doors is to a defined industry standard - you are an acknowledged professional in your field.”

http://www.fdis.co.uk/

Cost????????

I just did the sign up process and got to the end when the cost came up. £500 for the diploma.

I'm sure it won't be too difficult especially as the first question was what is 7 + 5

I'll rely on my current knowledge thank you.

A diploma for fire do......

Giraffe comes to mind.

I hope the diploma includes inspecting ABOVE a fire door. Lift up the ceiling tiles and see if there's a false ceiling (i.e. no wall) above the door.

A diploma for fire do......

Giraffe comes to mind.

I hope the diploma includes inspecting ABOVE a fire door. Lift up the ceiling tiles and see if there's a false ceiling (i.e. no wall) above the door.

Made me laugh :-)

The doors are checked as part of the Fire risk assessment then as part of our building inspection monthly checks we have a checklist that the facilities coordinator uses to check the door , if a defect is found we then get in a contractor to come in and repair or replace. I have a checklist if anyone wants it.
regards Dave

You are aware of the Nebosh course for Fire safety I hope?

I took mine in Nov 2010.

Nebosh Level 3 Certificate in Fire Safety and Risk Management.

Fire doors are just one element.

The course is the fire door inspection scheme (fdis) just google it and it should come up. The diploma is £1500 plus registration fees etc so is quite expensive but i think i'm right in saying that they do a certificate course for £700.