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SPR  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2013 15:55:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SPR

Hi all, can anyone tell me what the difference is in these and which one would you use as the manufacturers data? Vibration (ISO-8662-12) 4 m/s² Vibration-ISO-28927-8_ms2 <2,5 m/s² Vibration-K-ISO-28927-8_ms2 - m/s² This information is for a CP7901 and has been taken from the http://www.cp.com/en/wha...o/powertools/ecatalogue/ web site
smitch  
#2 Posted : 22 January 2013 16:43:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

SPR I for one have never been keen on trusting manufacturer’s data (cynical, that’s me); these figures are IMHO the absolute best (read as lowest for vibration) that can be achieved and are taken in laboratory conditions, not the real world. They also relate to brand new tools (and probably even then relate to the best of the batch). So I would recommend taking your own measurements if this is a tool used frequently, for prolonged periods of time or alongside/as well as other vibrating tools. Back to your question(s) They are just different Standards: • Vibration (ISO-8662-12) 4 m/s²……This standard has been withdrawn so forget about this one. • Vibration-ISO-28927-8_ms2 <2,5 m/s²….. Could base your recommendation for Trigger/Use time on this one if you so choose (taking into account other exposures to vibrating tools if necessary of course). • Vibration-K-ISO-28927-8_ms2 - m/s²….. No reading provided so not a lot to consider really
Lisa Boulton  
#3 Posted : 22 January 2013 17:30:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lisa Boulton

The ISO numbers relate to the standards for the method of testing vibration for that particular tool. The 'K' value is the measurement of 'uncertainty' of the measured vibration emission. As an example the manufacturer tests and finds the vibration value is 4 m/s 2 known as the 'a' value, but the 'K' measurement is 2 m/s 2, so the actual value is 'a' + 'K' = 6 m/s 2. However, as Smitch says, there is no value against 'K' in your tool information. Sorry not to be able to help more. Lisa
james fleming  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:37:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
james fleming

SPR, I’m no expert. However, my 2p worth would be: You are looking to use a bit of kit an air reciprocating saw, (CP7901). The information on the web site offers three vibration guides. Vibration (ISO-8662-12) 4 m/s² Vibration-ISO-28927-8_ms2 <2,5 m/s² Vibration-K-ISO-28927-8_ms2 - m/s² ISO means International Organisation for Standardisation. ISO, from the Greek word meaning equal. In that all readings using this standard are equal. Another example ISO 14001. The same equal standard used against all organisations for the environment accreditation. The numbers are scaled 1 to 10, for example (they do go a lot higher). The numbers marry the m/s2 (for metres per second squared). This is the measurement of the magnitude at which the bit of kit vibrates. Your question is which one do you use. Or which of the three measurements do you use for risk assessment? The answer is the first one. Why, it (or the standard relates to reciprocating saws, which is what you have. The other 2 relate to other bits of kit. However, as mentioned that standard has been replaced with ISO 28927-8:2009. So you cannot use it but if it were still in play you would. Now if you take the new standard into consideration, that being ISO 28927-8:2009. This is the ‘test method’ used to define the methods for the measuring of vibration. It will not tell you the number you need. Duly, I would still revert back to the fist measurement and use that one. Ie 4m/s2. Why? Well this is the one it was benchmarked against and without as calibrated tool to measure the magnitude this is as good as it gets. So, plug 4 m/s2 into the HSE calculator and you’ll get: 3 hours 8 minutes till the EAV 12 hours 30 minutes to the ELV These are all ‘trigger time’ related. Like I said, I’m no expert but going on what you have said and with out the use of a tool for measurement I would use 4 m/s2 based on the info provide. Hope this makes sense…
james fleming  
#5 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:38:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
james fleming

SPR, I’m no expert. However, my 2p worth would be: You are looking to use a bit of kit an air reciprocating saw, (CP7901). The information on the web site offers three vibration guides. Vibration (ISO-8662-12) 4 m/s² Vibration-ISO-28927-8_ms2 <2,5 m/s² Vibration-K-ISO-28927-8_ms2 - m/s² ISO means International Organisation for Standardisation. ISO, from the Greek word meaning equal. In that all readings using this standard are equal. Another example ISO 14001. The same equal standard used against all organisations for the environment accreditation. The numbers are scaled 1 to 10, for example (they do go a lot higher). The numbers marry the m/s2 (for metres per second squared). This is the measurement of the magnitude at which the bit of kit vibrates. Your question is which one do you use. Or which of the three measurements do you use for risk assessment? The answer is the first one. Why, it (or the standard relates to reciprocating saws, which is what you have. The other 2 relate to other bits of kit. However, as mentioned that standard has been replaced with ISO 28927-8:2009. So you cannot use it but if it were still in play you would. Now if you take the new standard into consideration, that being ISO 28927-8:2009. This is the ‘test method’ used to define the methods for the measuring of vibration. It will not tell you the number you need. Duly, I would still revert back to the fist measurement and use that one. Ie 4m/s2. Why? Well this is the one it was benchmarked against and without as calibrated tool to measure the magnitude this is as good as it gets. So, plug 4 m/s2 into the HSE calculator and you’ll get: 3 hours 8 minutes till the EAV 12 hours 30 minutes to the ELV These are all ‘trigger time’ related. Like I said, I’m no expert but going on what you have said and with out the use of a tool for measurement I would use 4 m/s2 based on the info provide. Hope this makes sense…
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 23 January 2013 08:05:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Having had extensive experience in this area over the years going back to the days when there were no such things as readily portable human vibration exposure measuring kit my advice is not to trust the supplier/manufacturers data at any time Its expensive if U DIY everything but at least U will have real data and whilst the HSE and our government go on about keeping things simple its very different when you end up in court as the same HSE are looking for detail as are the judges and that is when your own real data will become very valuable That said many companies these days are doing nothing and risking claims; assessing that the £ saved by not undertaking data collection etc. over a period will pay for any claim should one arise and if a claim does not arise they have gained money - morality does not come into the equation
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