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johno12345  
#1 Posted : 30 January 2013 10:26:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johno12345

Hi, I am looking for an extinguisher solution for a mineral oil quench tank. Briefly, the process is that hot material is immersed in the oil to cool it. The oil is circulated through a heat exchanged to cool the oil. The concern is that should the oil reach its flash point how would we extinguish the fire. This has never happened in the past. The tank has CO2 extinguishant systems on it, but I suspect that once the CO2 has dissipated, the oil could reignite. So I was thinking of something like an AFFF extinguisher, on a trolley that we could use should this happen, extinguishing the fire and allowing the oil to cool naturally. Has anyone got any experience with this? Thanks in advance
JJ Prendergast  
#2 Posted : 30 January 2013 22:29:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Seem like a good solution to me.
Graham Bullough  
#3 Posted : 31 January 2013 01:03:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

johno If there is a foreseeable risk of the oil being ignited and the area of the open top of the tank isn't too big, a simple, low cost and effective measure could be to have a single or multi-piece metal lid/cover which could be slid or hinged over the top. It's the industrial equivalent of placing a metal or gauze lid or a fire blanket over blazing oil in a kitchen chip pan. Covering/enclosing any fire helps to deprive it of air (effectively the oxygen in air) which is needed to sustain combustion. This is partly achieved by containing and concentrating the fumes from the fire so that they exclude air and act as an asphyxiant. However, it's worth ascertaining how likely it is that a fire could occur and therefore what measures should be taken to try and reduce the likelihood. This could involves consideration of various factors such as how much oil is in the tank, how many hot items of what size (mass) and temperature are quenched in it and at what rate. Is there any means by which the temperature of the oil can be monitored while the tank is in use? If so, perhaps the oil supplier and/or others could suggest a temperature at which it would be prudent to temporarily stop quenching items until the heat exchanger had cooled the oil sufficiently to allow resumption of quenching. As the above points are based on simple principles (secondary school science level) regarding heat and fire, hopefully forum users with greater experience of quench tanks can give more detailed advice.
Phil Grace  
#4 Posted : 31 January 2013 08:04:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

John, Thought about asking your insurer? They may have a wide body of evidence on the risk of fires and the issues around putting them out. They may also have a view/preference for the approach to be adopted and may know of a supplier(s) that you could approach. Phil
johno12345  
#5 Posted : 31 January 2013 08:14:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johno12345

Thanks for the advice, the tanks have a substantial 'snuffer plate' that lowers automatically. I am not aware of the oil ever catching fire, but the soot around it has occasionally caught fire, this is just part of the process and is contained within the tank The tank has a temperature display and we know what is a safe quench temperature so it would have to be a series of mistakes or failures before the oil actually went up. The tank is designed that the largest load of material cant take the oil to an unsafe temperature, the tank is about 200,000 litres.
Jane Blunt  
#6 Posted : 31 January 2013 08:20:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

What is a snuffer plate - does this perform the function of a lid as suggested abouve? I would look into what the flashpoint is - it is likely to be quite high. 200 000 litres is a lot of oil. Have you also considered the possibility of it leaking? Environmental disaster would spring to my mind.
johno12345  
#7 Posted : 31 January 2013 08:36:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johno12345

yes, the snuffer works as you describe. the flash point is quite high, im checking what it is currently as we have it analysed regularly. As for the possibility of it leaking, well, its in a very substantial concrete and steel tank, and the pipework is designed so that any leak would drain back into the bund. Its all in doors, set into the floor. Anyway, Its useful to think out loud sometimes, this is one of those occasions!
Jane Blunt  
#8 Posted : 31 January 2013 08:50:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Since you already have an effective lid, and the system has an extinguishing system, I suspect that the risk has been managed. I came across these two links: http://www.ccohs.ca/osha...rking/heat_treating.html http://www.chemetron.com...%26siteId%3D5230,00.html I also came across a case study of a fire: http://www.sozogaku.com/fkd/en/cfen/CC1000049.html and an extensive document here: http://www.dfoggknives.c...oughton_On_Quenching.pdf
johno12345  
#9 Posted : 31 January 2013 09:00:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johno12345

Thanks, that all sounds familiar. I think ill get the foam setup as a last resort, just in case. Thanks for the discussion :)
ExDeeps  
#10 Posted : 31 January 2013 10:50:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

johno12345 wrote:
Thanks, that all sounds familiar. I think ill get the foam setup as a last resort, just in case. Thanks for the discussion :)
Johno, Just reading through this are you really sure you need another layer of protection? You say the oil has not caught light - in how many years of operation? You have temperature indication and snuffer plates, the soot surely is a housekeeping issue. Adding foam systems will ultimately increase your costs in terms of capital expenditure, training, ongoing maintenance and potentially loss through accidental initiation of the foam system. Also consider the costs of clean up if too much foam is applied and then overflows the tank (I dont know what the "freeboard" is obviously") or foam is applied and the snuffer plates are dropped. Can you make the business case for this? Just a thought, Jim
ExDeeps  
#11 Posted : 31 January 2013 10:56:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Just to be absolutely clear, I know the foam will float on the oil, my concern is the foam overflowing and causing slip hazards and just causing a girt big mess in the middle of a flap... Jim
ExDeeps  
#12 Posted : 31 January 2013 11:21:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Me again..... sorry But while I'm thinking about it, and again, I don't know what temperatures you're operating at, have you considered the thermal shock on the tank itself that putting foam into a hot tank might have and the resultant theoretical outcome of the tank failing to contain your oil? Again, just thinking, Jim
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 31 January 2013 11:24:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Keep right on thinking Deeps. This is all over my head but its good to get an insight into these things. Rob
johno12345  
#14 Posted : 31 January 2013 11:28:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johno12345

Well, we are removing a layer of protection, which I think is a bit dubious anyway, we can pump the oil out of the tank into a sealed storage tank. We want to remove this tank as it has a maintenance, bunding pipework overhead. However, I suspect that if we pumped the burning oil out of the tank, we will then have a fire that is larger than the surface of the oil as the sides and bottom of the tank would then be on fire. The oil level is very low so you would get a lot of foam before the tank overflowed with foam There have been a couple of fires but nobody is certain what actually caught fire, I suspect it wasnt the oil its self. 70 years of operation by the way
johno12345  
#15 Posted : 31 January 2013 11:34:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johno12345

Ill ask about the thermal shock when the rep comes to see me
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