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Martin#1  
#1 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:06:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin#1

This may be a stupid question but are these two terms (in H&S lingo) the same thing? For example the HSE's publication 'Five Steps to Risk Assessment INDG 163' states that its contains notes on good practice which are not compulsory but which may be useful. I would consider this document Best Practice for carrying out a Risk Assessment
Kate  
#2 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:10:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

This is what I make of it. Guidance can tell you what good practice is. You can only find out what best practice is by comparing the practices of a number of organisations that are good at the thing to be practised and identifying the best of them. Best practice could go well beyond good practice.
Zimmy  
#3 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Take for example the case of fitting RCD devices to domestic electrical installations. Good practice (and indeed a minimum requirement as it happens) would be to fit 2No. Devices in order split the installation into two halves to limit the number of circuits out of use in the event of a failure on one circuit, say a 5x5 split. Upstairs lighting and downstairs lighting off different devices. However, best practice would be to have individual devices, one for each circuit so only the damaged circuit is out of action in the event of a fault and hence minimum disruption and a lot easier to fault find (so works out cheaper if a problem does occur). Rob
Martin#1  
#4 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:25:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin#1

zimmy wrote:
Take for example the case of fitting RCD devices to domestic electrical installations. Good practice (and indeed a minimum requirement as it happens) would be to fit 2No. Devices in order split the installation into two halves to limit the number of circuits out of use in the event of a failure on one circuit, say a 5x5 split. Upstairs lighting and downstairs lighting off different devices. However, best practice would be to have individual devices, one for each circuit so only the damaged circuit is out of action in the event of a fault and hence minimum disruption and a lot easier to fault find (so works out cheaper if a problem does occur). Rob
In this example who has produced what is 'good practice' and who has produced details on what is 'best practice' ?
Jake  
#5 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:31:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

This will always be a vague one, and the terms can be identifed through a variety of ways (pretty much what Kate stated). I dare say Zimmy's example is actually of compliance and then good / best practice (if it's a legal minimum it cannot be good practice!). Generally speaking I'd define good practice as that which goes above the legal minimum and is a general industry standard (so this would be contained in guidance documents (generally HSE guidance) and by identify what the industry as a whole do. Best practice however is that which goes the extra mile, an example maybe OHSAS accredited systems and / or working to a British Standard (often more onerus than guidance) and again when looking at the industry norms best practice would be that which is not common but which goes further than the majority.
Zimmy  
#6 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:35:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Good practice (for us) is to follow the minimum requirements laid down in the Electricity at Work regulations 1989 and BS7671 as amended. Best practice (again for us) is to design with thought and care. If we (sorry for this but I will refer to electrical) take cpc's - earth conductors - to metal back boxes of socket outlets with 2No fixed screw lugs that would be best practice when in reality good practice says that we need no do that. In this case the NICEIC etc state what is 'good' and we, as electricians and design people ask for (in the spec) the 'best practice' option
damelcfc  
#7 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:43:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

As kate, my definition of Best practise is a higher standard than good practise - 'The best practise would be the best of the good ones when compared apples for apples'.
Zimmy  
#8 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:49:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

And there was me thinking that compliance was good practice. Are they not one and the same? If not why not? :-)
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#9 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:56:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Surely, the dictionary will illuminate the way forward here. Best practice uses an absolute pronoun. Best is not quantifiable, nor is it divisible. By contract, good practice in not absolute and can be quantified, good, very good, exceptional, reasonably good, even not very and nowhere near good! This implies variability in quantum, and therefore in interpretation, thus there can be several ways to achieve good practice but only one to achieve best practice. If you do ever achieve nirvana - best practice - and someone does better then your version of best practice no longer exists and the accolade must be transferred to another. All that remains is the scope of assessment. Is best the best ever, everywhere? Or is it just best in my undertaking, among my contemporaries, in this country, or perhaps measured internationally? Best is best. It is an absolute term, but the denominator can still be varied.
Zimmy  
#10 Posted : 08 February 2013 12:59:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I wish I had said that Ian
Jake  
#11 Posted : 08 February 2013 14:01:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

zimmy wrote:
And there was me thinking that compliance was good practice. Are they not one and the same? If not why not? :-)
I'd say not, the way I see it (based on my training / experience etc.) is that there are 3 categories (in an OHS sense): - Compliance: doing the minimum required to "stay clear of the law". Compliance is exactly that, complying with what is required. - Good practice: Going above compliance and doing things that are not necessarily legally required but what industry does and is deemed generally as a better standard of performance - Best practice: as already detailed Ian, whilst I see where you're coming from I do feel the 3 terms above have a general consensus definition in relation to OHS (at least within my organisation and colleagues in the sector).
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#12 Posted : 08 February 2013 15:41:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Jake wrote:
- Compliance: doing the minimum required to "stay clear of the law". Compliance is exactly that, complying with what is required. - Good practice: Going above compliance and doing things that are not necessarily legally required but what industry does and is deemed generally as a better standard of performance - Best practice: as already detailed Ian, whilst I see where you're coming from I do feel the 3 terms above have a general consensus definition in relation to OHS (at least within my organisation and colleagues in the sector).
Compliance was not part of the question.
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 08 February 2013 18:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Why can't the legal minimum be good practice? If it is not good practice why if it there at all then. Would it not be considered bad practice not to be compliant? Come to think of it though, when I suggest going further than the line in the sand called compliance I have been slammed on here for wanting to spend too much money for going further than that required. Funny old world :-) As it is said 'The only Zen to be found on the top of a mountain is the Zen you take with you'
chris42  
#14 Posted : 10 February 2013 11:44:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Zimmy I don't disagree with your comments generally, but if you consider that currently a lot of businesses have been avoiding tax, but not breaking the law. I would not consider this to be good practice. I suspect it is a fine line between Legal compliance, Good practice (as we would not want legislation to spell it out for us, as we would have nothing left to disagree over - sorry I mean debate) and best practice (or gold plating as some may suggest). That thin line is not a straight one either.
Zimmy  
#15 Posted : 10 February 2013 12:14:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Good fun this H&S init :-)
chris42  
#16 Posted : 10 February 2013 15:19:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

zimmy wrote:
Good fun this H&S init :-)
Yep ;¬)
pete48  
#17 Posted : 10 February 2013 16:09:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

"The best practices of the few become the good practices of the many". As usual I cannot remember the source of this description so apologies for not referencing it properly. Nonetheless it shows clearly that they are both the same thing and yet different; it really just depends on when you discover the practice and start to use it. So when the HSE guidance on risk assessment was first published it may well have been seen as best practice (though I never thought it was) but now it sits as good practice (and I still don't like it). One would hope that all legal minima reflect what is accepted by society as good practice. As Ian B has pointed out there can be variations in 'good' so that doing more than the legal minima, or indeed achieving a duty by methods other than those generally used by others, can still be described as good practice rather than best practice. Don't you just love semantics;-) p48
boblewis  
#18 Posted : 10 February 2013 17:26:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Martin#1 5 Steps is definitely not best practice in my book. Badly organised, vague and poor;y constructed questions Bob
andybz  
#19 Posted : 11 February 2013 09:06:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

Surprised no one has mentioned the page on HSE website titled "Assessing compliance with the law in individual cases and the use of good practice" available at http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/theory/alarp2.htm My interpretation is that Good Practice is most relevant where an ALARP demonstration is required. If there are specific legal requirements (e.g. examples provided by Zimmy) it is probably fair to say that good practice is the same as minimum legal requirement. Best practice is mentioned by HSE. It would be a situation where additional time and effort has been put in to go beyond ALARP
MrsBlue  
#20 Posted : 11 February 2013 12:09:03(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Who decides what is good and what is best? In my experience it's the person/s (managers and with worker consultation) on the ground doing the job and taking all knowledge into consideration through risk assessment. Hence you may not get some things, done strictly in accordance with HSE / Industry guidance etc but they are still safe. And if this practice is restricted to one firm how do all the rest of us get to hear about this better practice. Rich
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