Rank: Forum user 
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I have inherited a company policy on performing DSE risk assessments which states that the first thing you do is establish if the person to be risk assessed is a user or not within the terms of the regulations. If the person is deemed not to be a user then the assessment goes no further. Furthermore the policy is written in such a manner that being declared a user is only possible if you spend more than 50% of your time at the computer performing typing, I can only assume that the reluctance to declare people users is to do with the need to pay for eye sight tests and assist towards the purchase of corrective lenses if they prove to be required. The unions are saying that they disagree with the policy and that all people who work at a computer should be assessed and provided with information as to how to reduce any risks from their posture and use of the equipment, irrespective of their definition as a user, which by the way they also think is too rigid. All this has come about by a move of head office to a refurbished office were each desk will have two screens and a docking station for agile workers, or two screens and a CPU for anchor workers. At the same time there is also a move to paper light working which means more time staring at a screen but perhaps not necessarily typing (use a mouse to navigate and reading electronic documentation). My problem is I tend to agree with the union argument and think all people should be assessed if they operate computers and that the definition of these people as user should not as rigidly prescribed (inputting for more than 50% of the time.)
Anyone any thoughts?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Super forum user
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You don't need to do a DSE assessment for every person that users a computer, regardless of how long they use it for. The fact that the union wants that approach is the reason I have such a dislike for unions.
Having said that the employers stance, of 50% of their time, would also seem to push the boundaries the other way.
Your looking for peoepl that use computers as a significant part of their work. To me that is several hours a day on most days.
Not using keyboards is a red herring. Sat down for long periods, staring at a screen for long periods and excessive use of a mouse, can all lead to problems.
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Rank: Forum user
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Teh boy thanks for the link to the guidance which I had already looked at but others who follwo the thread may find it useful for reference
Clairel
I do not share your dislike of unions having come to health and safety through the trades union movement and in the knowledge that nearly all health and safety regulations are direct result of trade union actions. However I would agree that on occasions the representatives can be over zealous and I would not be wanting to assess a worker who used equipment for 5 mins per day for example, however nearly all our employees if they use a computer do so for a considerable time on occasions if not every day, even the accident reporting procedure needs an electronic form filling in and the move to paper light will make computer time per person even greater.
I suppose the question also asks to be asked do we need to risk assess the work station or the user or both?
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Rank: Forum user
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Saf,
why do you not conduct self assessments for all and then filter out the defined users, after all someone may not be difined as a user but identifies they have no understanding of DSE set up/posture you still have an obligation to provide basic information regardless. although you may not be obligated to provide eye test etc.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I'd go with Dennish's suggestion - it helps without being onerous and should be acceptable to both sides.
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Rank: Forum user
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Dennish / Kate
I agree that seems like the sensible approach to me but my overall risk manager insists, (he wrote the original policy) that there is no legal obligation to assess people using DSE equipment unless they are users within the definition of the regulations whereas I say that all people using the DSE, for all but very short duration, should have the benefit of a risk assessment and some training on posture / positioning equipment, frequent rest away from the equipment doing other work etc. In fact I say that this is the intention of the regulations but they say not, hence the argument does I am afraid boil down to the legal interpretation of the regulations. Do the regulations call for training and assessment for all users with heavy users also having to be offered eye tests and assistance with purchase of corrective lens if deemed necessary by the test? or does it only caal for identifu=ying the heavy users and training them as described?
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Rank: Forum user
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Dennish / Kate
I agree that seems like the sensible approach to me but my overall risk manager insists, (he wrote the original policy) that there is no legal obligation to assess people using DSE equipment unless they are users within the definition of the regulations whereas I say that all people using the DSE, for all but very short duration, should have the benefit of a risk assessment and some training on posture / positioning equipment, frequent rest away from the equipment doing other work etc. In fact I say that this is the intention of the regulations but they say not, hence the argument does I am afraid boil down to the legal interpretation of the regulations. Do the regulations call for training and assessment for all users with heavy users also having to be offered eye tests and assistance with purchase of corrective lens if deemed necessary by the test? or does it only call for identifiying the heavy users and training them as described?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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We use a form with points allocated for various answers in regard to the individuals usage of the DSE; depending on the scoring we either deem the person to be a 'user' or not. Takes any personal issues out about who is entitled to what in terms of eye tests etc.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What is your boss afraid will happen if you do more than the bare legal minimum (as interpreted by him)? If you can identify what that fear is and come up with a solution that prevents it happening you might be able to talk him round.
Arguing with him about the interpretation of law may not be the best way forward if he is someone who is unwilling to admit that he is ever wrong. It doesn't really matter what the law is in terms of facilitating self-assessment and providing information - even if there isn't a law that says you have to do it, there's certainly no law that says you can't!
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Rank: Super forum user
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However if you do want to argue, L26 is what to base your argument on: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l26.pdfParagraphs 10-19 discuss who is a user. It's really not straightforward to say who is legally a user and who isn't. And that is a good argument for treating all of them as users!
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Rank: Super forum user
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SAF, if you have read L26 ACOP then you will know that the definition of a user is:
"(a) normally use DSE for continuous or near-continuous spells of an hour or more at a time; and
(b) use DSE in this way more or less daily; and
(c) have to transfer information quickly to or from the DSE;
and also need to apply high levels of attention and concentration; or are highly dependent on DSE or have little choice about using it; or need special training or skills to use the DSE."
To me, that's pretty darn clear! (1hr + at least daily = user) (we need to assume that persons using DSE for such periods are dependant on it!). There's even a table on page 12 to make it crystal clear.
It is fairly common sense to state that "use" is not just typing (we're not in the days of the typewriter!). If you want to get technical then eye strain and torso position are independent of the task of typing. (use is also defined as anything connected to the work activity - Reg 1).
In relation to your other comment, Reg 2 requires the risk assessment of workstations used by users (so, yes, workstations need assessing).
In light of the above (and also common sense imo) your current definition of user is clearly wrong, I cannot see how this can be argued against as it's stated in law (it's not even a grey area of law). When you have then identified your users, the assessments should be conducted.
The most reasonably practicable / effective / etc method for risk assessing workstations and training users is a debate in its self and not what you’ve asked opinion on.
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Rank: Forum user
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Jake wrote:SAF, if you have read L26 ACOP then you will know that the definition of a user is:
"(a) normally use DSE for continuous or near-continuous spells of an hour or more at a time; and
(b) use DSE in this way more or less daily; and
(c) have to transfer information quickly to or from the DSE;
and also need to apply high levels of attention and concentration; or are highly dependent on DSE or have little choice about using it; or need special training or skills to use the DSE."
To me, that's pretty darn clear! (1hr + at least daily = user) (we need to assume that persons using DSE for such periods are dependant on it!). There's even a table on page 12 to make it crystal clear.
It is fairly common sense to state that "use" is not just typing (we're not in the days of the typewriter!). If you want to get technical then eye strain and torso position are independent of the task of typing. (use is also defined as anything connected to the work activity - Reg 1).
In relation to your other comment, Reg 2 requires the risk assessment of workstations used by users (so, yes, workstations need assessing).
In light of the above (and also common sense imo) your current definition of user is clearly wrong, I cannot see how this can be argued against as it's stated in law (it's not even a grey area of law). When you have then identified your users, the assessments should be conducted.
The most reasonably practicable / effective / etc method for risk assessing workstations and training users is a debate in its self and not what you’ve asked opinion on. Spot on Jake.
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Rank: Guest
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I do my DSE assessments exactly along the lines as described by Jake i.e. a debate.
I start off with a questionnaire which is completed on line. I then go and discuss the employee's answers with them and advise on any actions we agreed upon.
Rich
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