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Safe zone arond leaking 33kg chlorine gas bottle
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We store a small number (<10) of 33kg chlorine gas bottles in a secure, well ventilated, remote part of the compound - at far end of our site.
If one of these bottles had a catastophic failure e.g. to the valve and cover it released all its contents in a few seconds, would a 20m exclusion zone suffice - this is ther recommendation of the supplier, who cannot give us any references to where this "best practice" comes from.
Comments / refrences / guidance please?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would like to think that this distance is the result of someone at some time running a model of dispersal of a chlorine leak under given weather conditions. But who knows - it could be a guess.
Have you got the HSE guidance for chlorine cylinders, HSG40?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Evans
A lot depends on how the cylinders are stored, are they in a bunded area?
Topography of the ground and the prevailing wind will also have effects on any gas cloud produced
Bear in mind over 90000 tonnes of chlorine were used in WW! by the Allies and the Germans
http://www.noblis.org/Mi...storyChemWarfareWWI.aspx
Quanties used much greater but then the areas effected were huge as well - A 20 metre cordon might give you good head start - but gas doesn't stop at a line
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree that HSG 40 is the current industry guidance. However having personally witnessed a leak from a 33kg chlorine cylinder, the 20m distance quoted in HSG 40 is too little. On that occasion a house was located approximately 30m away: the escaping chlorine stripped all of the paint and varnish off all of the fixtures in the house, and attacked the soft furnishings to the point where they had to be dumped (a 1m high "tide" mark showing the gas cloud damage was visible in the house after the leak). Thankfully the residents escaped as one of them worked with chlorine (unconnected with the leak). and immediately recognised it when it started entering their house: all safely evacuated.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree, I'd certainly want to be more than 20m away too!
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Rank: Forum user
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I'd be pretty interested in wind direction too!
Do you have a wind sock on or near the compound?
Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have researched authoritative sources of information for our emergency scenario planning that includes chemical incidents on site, such as a tanker or a lorry delivering chemicals etc.
Unfortunately, there does not seem to be UK sources.
For chemicals the US source that I felt was useful is the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) 2012 version of its Emergency Response Guidebook (ERG) that provides first responders with a go-to manual to help deal with hazmat accidents during the critical first 30 minutes
http://phmsa.dot.gov/sta...Files/Hazmat/ERG2012.pdf
For Chlorine, it referes to Guide 124
Also, TABLE 1 has information on initial isolation and protective action distances for small & large spills/releases.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The recognised way of resolving this would be to undertake a consequence modelling exercise.
This is usually done using the DNV PHAST software.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What pressure is the chlorine stored at in the bottles?
A quick PHAST run based on 60bar pressure gives with a 2.5mm leak
0.5ppm (WEL limit) at 330m in 1.5F weather (Pasquill Stability Index)
120m distance in 5D weather
50% fatality risk at 80m distance.
Send me the details and I'll have a play with PHAST
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would expect the chlorine in the bottle to be a liquid.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JJ,
Typical pressure in a 33kg Chlorine cylinder is 7 bar (and I confirm that it is liquid Chlorine).
PH2
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Rank: Super forum user
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To keep below the WEL the safety distance could be up to 1350m (0.5ppm)
900m for 1ppm
550m for 2.5ppm
350m for 5ppm
Possibly lethal for 33% of people to 30m
AT about 70m, 10% lethal
I would set your safety distance to maybe 250m
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Rank: Super forum user
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Used to be a shift supervisor in a power station with 12x1 tonne chlorine drums, and as a maintenance fitter I used to do the drum change over and routine maintenance of the evaporator coils etc.
The key is to detect any leakage with a sensor/alarm. Any activation at the station resulted in a site evacuation which was a very robust recommendation from the emergency services. They then set up the controlled access and decontamination point at the station entrance. I say this recognising that your drums are smaller but the bigger the safety distance you have the better.
The gas is heavier than air so you also need to locate and identify manholes, drains, sewers etc in the immediate area where the gas can collect.
Even with mild to moderate winds you can have a big dispersion.
Hope this helps a little.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chlorine gas cylinder storage is an intrinsic part of my current sites operation of etching metal with ferric chloride.
At your level of usage all the pertinent points have been covered already and reference documents given.
To give you my scenario which mostly backs up what others have said, we have sensors in all the areas that it is used. We have a high and low level leak alarm and a trained team of incident responders (face masks, face fit tested, gasman detectors etc etc). Our cylinders are stored in a brick shed outside and should we have a leak our first assembly point is inside the main building in a large office at the front of site. If a leak is detected in the usage areas again we close all windows, doors and proceed to the internal assembly point - its worth pointing out that should a low level alarm occur then the system is automatically shut down.
Its hard to fully go into detail of our system without writing an essay but the whole system and emergency procedure has been developed with Siemens and Inios Chlor.
We also have trained spill responders to deal with liquid chlorine spills using sand etc.
The sensors go off well before the human nose can detect it and my god its a strong bleach smell!
Treat the stuff with the respect it deserves and you won't go far wrong.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Gas release from 2.5 mm dia hole above liquid level
Dangerous toxic load 43 ppm based on (60 minute exposure duration) i.e. gas discharge over 3,064 seconds:
Distance to DTL is 68 m under F2 conditions & 17 m under D5 conditions.
Liquid release from 2.5 mm dia hole
DTL 147 ppm based on (5 minute exposure duration):
Distance to DTL is 114 m F2 conditions & 45 m D5 conditions.
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Rank: Super forum user
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In the event of catastrophic failure and liquid release the distance to 147 ppm is:
140 m under D5 weather conditions
117 under F2 conditions.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Bleve wrote:Gas release from 2.5 mm dia hole above liquid level
Dangerous toxic load 43 ppm based on (60 minute exposure duration) i.e. gas discharge over 3,064 seconds:
Distance to DTL is 68 m under F2 conditions & 17 m under D5 conditions.
Liquid release from 2.5 mm dia hole
DTL 147 ppm based on (5 minute exposure duration):
Distance to DTL is 114 m F2 conditions & 45 m D5 conditions.
And in English, on earth?
Back in the real world 114 M is the next village - try again.
58 miles is another number plucked from the air - safe, but again not practical.
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Rank: Super forum user
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damelcfc wrote:Bleve wrote:Gas release from 2.5 mm dia hole above liquid level
And in English, on earth?
Back in the real world 114 M is the next village - try again.
58 miles is another number plucked from the air - safe, but again not practical.
114 metres is hardly in the next village. Distances are calculated rather than plucked from the air.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Does post 16 contradict post 15?
Bleve, a few more words of explanation would help a lot.
Isn't 60 minutes 3600 seconds? Where does 3064 come from?
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Rank: Super forum user
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It may be 100% safety distance but that's not possible - low risk not no risk.
Not even Usain Bolt would relish a 100+M dash and in most circumstances this really is a hell of a long way, certainly off your own premises, over someone's elses and maybe into another (exception being big facilities)
There was a post the other day with a similar theme and the distance was given as 400+M.
Again , wont argue with 100% safety distance but it is totally 100% impossible to get there in time and to have control over such a place so far remote.
There needs to be a degree of common sense of what is actually achievable.
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Rank: Super forum user
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damelcfc
distance to ERPG 1 (1 ppm) extends to 3,650 metres
distance to AEGL1 10 minutes (0.5 ppm) extends to 5 Km.
Now that is in the next village
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Rank: Super forum user
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3,064 is the duration of release, then there is time of cloud drift and an assumption of exposure upto the hour.
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Rank: Super forum user
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damelcfc wrote:It may be 100% safety distance but that's not possible - low risk not no risk.
Not even Usain Bolt would relish a 100+M dash and in most circumstances this really is a hell of a long way, certainly off your own premises, over someone's elses and maybe into another (exception being big facilities)
There was a post the other day with a similar theme and the distance was given as 400+M.
Again , wont argue with 100% safety distance but it is totally 100% impossible to get there in time and to have control over such a place so far remote.
There needs to be a degree of common sense of what is actually achievable.
Distances are calculated to determine necessity to provide additional controls or mitigation measures,i.e. detection/automatic isolation, water spray, shelter in place etc and not targets for a sprint.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jane Blunt wrote:Does post 16 contradict post 15?
Bleve, a few more words of explanation would help a lot.
Isn't 60 minutes 3600 seconds? Where does 3064 come from?
Post 16 relates to instantaneous catastrophic failure releasing total inventory of liquid chlorine. Post 15 relates to release of time.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not a problem with that but can you see it is not practical and never will be for company 'x' assembly point to be in these locations?! They are just too far away regardless what the maths says.
Sometimes (not nice to say it but sometimes you have to) you just have to hope the winds blowing in a different direction (and that's also why we assemble inside).
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Safe zone arond leaking 33kg chlorine gas bottle
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