Rank: Forum user 
|
Hi all, I hope someone can point me in the right direction on this.
We had a van broken down on a site, some 80 miles from HQ.
The solution was to tow it back to the workshop using another van, and a rigid bar.
I am not happy this was carried out, but am struggling to find specific regs, guidance etc to back up my stance before approaching the boss.
Help...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Hi Cerith,
Not wanting to state the obvious but have you tried the Road Traffic Act, the Highways Agency, the AA/RAC or even the Police. I can recall many moons ago "when newly qualified drivers only had old bangers that often broke down" being ordered off the motorway by a traffic cop whilst I was towing someone from South Wales back to London.
Even if you find no-regulations it is pretty tiring being towed (even on a staight bar) for long periods of time, bearing in mind most drivers nowadays only know vehicles equipped with Power Assisted Steering! In IMO company policy should be that towed recovery on the highway is only to the nearest garage/repair faility. Any thing else should either be lifted onto a trailer or be a suspended tow.
Keeep us informed
Regards
Clive
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Hi Cerith,
Did any towing take place on the motorway?
Also was the lead vehicle pulling within its weight limit, when did the drivers pass there test, i think it was post 1997 when you have to take another test to tow, it is mainly aimed at trailers but have briefly spoken to a friend on the force and he said he would enforce it for towing, there is also a tow limit for certain licences i think, its been awhile and cant remember the particulars.
Hope it gives you some ammunition to research.
Pete
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Try regulations for towed trailers. From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow: -small trailers weighing no more than 750kg -trailers weighing more than 750kg, where the combined weight of the towing vehicle and the trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either: -a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total) -a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total) The reflectors on the trailer have to comply with EU regulations, the vehicles fitted reflectors do not meet trailer requirements. Try brakes, if over 750KG the brakes on the trailer must apply on overrun (licence/towing-vehicle weights apply) http://www.parkers.co.uk...advice/Archive/Towing/#1
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Thanks for the advice so far.
Everything I find relates to trailers, not towing another vehicle.
Both drivers passed their test many years ago, so no problem there.
Does a towed vehicle become a trailer under the regs if being towed?
Can't find any specifics.
btw, not on motorways (don't have any where I live!) Dual carriageway + A roads.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Just a few sticks in the spokes.
Was the Engine Running still.
Did they have brakes.
Did they have lights.
Did they have steering.
Apart from Motorway Driving which is more risky.
If the answer is yes to all above what did they do wrong?
These things happen and yes change company policy to suit what is your and many others sensible feelings towards this practice.
Regards Alex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
cerith wrote:
Everything I find relates to trailers, not towing another vehicle.
Indeed, all the comments above relate to towing a trailer, and another vehicle with a driver in it is not a trailer. A towed vehicle is not a trailer, and the driver of the towed vehicle remains the driver of that vehicle (meaning - you need to have one, they need to be licensed for the vehicle, they are responsible for ensuring the vehicle has lights on etc)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
cerith, what elements give you cause for concern? Not my area of expertise but the only thing I could consider (given the available info) would be a lack of RA for the activity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
OK, here goes.
The towed van had no engine power, therefore no power assistance to brakes & steering.
It had battery, therefore brake lights, indicators etc.
My main concern was for the guy being towed, and how effective the steering and brakes were.
Just seems too much for 80 miles or so?
Boss very old school - "we've done it like this for 30 years" kind of attitude, therefore I need something concrete to put in front of him.
Or am I being over cautious here?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Cerith
I feel you will find no formal regulation or code to say this cannot be done apart from a possibility of reduced brake efficiency.
Steering is possible and over a distance of 80 miles they could have stopped for breaks.
Yes we are in a world of regulations and rules and in a lot of cases working with the old school who have always done it this way.
I did it this way for years but I was trained to do it and subsequently trained others.
You will have to use the moral issue and try to come to some sensible agreement with management especially on the braking issue.
Good Luck Alex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
another thing to look at could be the vehicle insurance, i had renewal notice today for a pick up truck, which has to be covered under a commercial policy and was asked if i wanted to have extra insurance to be able to tow, again it is most probably for trailers but the company used the word tow only, could be worth looking at your current policy as this was included in mine last year but they wont cover it as standard this year
pete
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Thanks for the advice guys.
I guess I'll have to have the discussion and try and use my persuasive powers!?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
When I was working, I broke down on the way back from North Wales. The RAC came and a fixed tow bar was connected to the back of the van and the front of my car, a Vauxhall Cavalier. What a hair raising experience. All I could see was the back of the van. There were many twists and turns before we got to to my uncle's house on the outskirts of Chester.
I was able to steer and the brakes worked, but most of the breaking was done by the van driver. Would not want to do it again.
As other people have said, check the insurance of both vans, the towing bar9 When was it last used, storage, sign of wear.
This does require a proper risk assessment before being carried out.
Will the towed vehicle have a sign on the back to say it is being towed?
Consider the publicity if the vans are involved in a road accident.
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Contact your insures directly and ask a what if question? i.e. what if a car breaks down where do we stand on towing? You will be lead by your insurers on this one.
I am assuming that when you make reference to to assistance to breaking you are referring to ABS. Its not actually fact that ABS makes a differences to stopping distances. Power steering could make a massive difference.not sure if you have driven a car when the power steering has gone but its a pain to say the least and 80 miles I couldn't even imagine. Even being towed you will still be required to steer.
Does your company not have free breakdown assistance? One of the companies I worked for had free break down assistance and occupational health they didn't realize they had access to until I investigated. You never know?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Not ABS. The reference was to the servo-assisted braking.
No engine = No servo-assist, unless the vehicle has electro-hydraulic servo assist.
If you think that steering is hard work with no power-assist, then try turning the engine off while moving and then brake....there is a slight amount of help until the vacuum is gone...then it becomes hard work !
Couple the much greater force needed to brake with the hard work in steering, and you'll understand why most decide to walk !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
The only thing I'd have concerns about would be the distance(80 miles)
Additionally a note to some of the comments above would be, I wouldn't have the engine running no matter if it worked or not.
What I mean is, as the vehicle was being towed on a rigid bar then there would be no need for the vehicle being towed to break. If the engine was running and you pressed the brake (accidentally) you would impair the steering of the lead vehicle.
You would have limited braking ability with the engine off and this would be sufficient should the need to brake arose.
I wouldn't have thought that the vehicles were doing high speeds.
The ignition should have been on, only for the lights.
Just my thoughts that's all
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
RTA (1988) Sec 185 (c): http://www.legislation.g...kpga/1988/52/section/185Hopefully your rigid towbar will be mounted on the same axis of the vehicle. Only some cars/vans have them mounted on different sides, some in the middle. If towed as such, you should keep the speed below 30....especially if the vehicle being towed has no brakes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.