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Do you see HSE as a part of the Health and Safety function in your business or as 100% Regulator and
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Clairel wrote:Stephen25053 wrote:
I also have a very firm view that HSE does not directly improve safety or health outcomes other than through enforcement (in one form or another) as we do not control any aspect of any workplace. The only way that we effect changes is through communication whether that be verbal, written or formal / legal, but it is the employer who puts those changes into effect and so reduces the risk, hopefully.
That is contradictory. To say the HSE does not directly improve safety or health outcomes other than through enforcement (which by the way I strongly disagree with as inspectors used to give advice more often than enforce) but then also to say that the only way we effect changes is through communication etc, is a direct contradiction. I would say some of my greater successes as an enforcer was when I wasn't enforcing. I did enforce quite a bit but for the most part I didn't feel comfortable in that role. Maybe that's why I prefer being a consultant where I can actually help people more by changing attitudes and raising awareness rather than compelling people to do something with no ultimate change in perception. What Clair describes is exactly what I have experienced over the past 25 years ( except the once!). I'd always assumed that this was what HSE inspectors where trained to do. I once got an inspector (after much pleading) to raise INs on the company, as it was the only way I could get a foreign management to sit up & take notice. That bloke was a career changer for me I owe him a lot.
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Rank: Forum user
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Looking at this in a wider context:
One of the strengths of the HSE used to be its ability to work through a large range of trade, employer, professional and standards groups, as well as the trade union movement. In addition, the HSE has been an initiator/supporter of several sector based initiatives, some going back to the start of the organisation. For many years I have thought the value of this work is underestimated and often not recognised.
In the HSE Research Report 620 ‘Review of targeted initiatives in the manufacturing sector’ 2008. They found:
‘The literature review indicates a number of similar schemes that report significant reductions in injury rates in the order of 50% over a period of 8 years.
‘It is apparent that the initiation and initial stages of these schemes entail a higher level of HSE involvement in order to secure initial commitment of the sector and lead organisations, agree targets and priorities. The commitment of HSE resources may also facilitate and encourage contributions from partners.’
Since the establishment of the HSE they have developed both an enforcement role – the main one – and an enabler function. In this second role HSC (as was) Industry Advisory Committees established tripartite approaches in specific sectors. Changes in the economy; moving to a service based economy; increasing self employed and a whole host of other factors mean that the tripartite system is less influential and doesn’t exist for many sectors. As estimates give trade union membership at about 20% of the workforce, the success they have had in assisting employers improve health and safety standards, is now applied to a minority of the workforce – albeit economically significant.
So the HSE has no longer got the resources to be able to effectively underpin its enabler role. Quite clearly the Government want it to only apply its enforcer role to ‘higher risk’ activities, hoping the ‘lower risk’ activities will be ‘self-regulated’ by employers using the simplified guidance now freely available for those with access to the HSE website.
The simplification of Regulations etc is designed to ‘inspire’ employers into complying with the law as their obligations now become clear [after nearly 40 years]. Apparently they will enthusiastically fulfil their obligations once the Red Tape has been cleared away. Fees for Intervention (FFI) is just part of the move to underpin the HSE’s narrow enforcement role. For example I understand that if Inspectors find a ‘material breach’ they are mandated to implement the FFI procedure. ie less discretion.
So with the Government policy limiting HSE funds; reviewing all ACoPs/guidance; ignoring the benefits of health and safety regulation; the day to day role of the Inspector is bound to change.
This gives those employers using the services of around 30 million workers (many of whom will never see an Inspector) the opportunity to ‘voluntarily’ see the light and ‘self-regulate’ themselves into fulfilling their legal obligations. This indeed is the Challenge of the Red Tape Fallacy.
A squadron of pigs stands ready for take off.
Cheers.
Nigel
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Rank: Super forum user
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Best post I have seen in a longggg time!
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Rank: Forum user
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quote=Clairel] Stephen25053 wrote:
As for risk assessments for the work of Inspectors, well, some might say that that is a little patchy but I do not see that we do a great deal of hazardous work ourselves, we are accompanied on sites and are well trained (I think...).
Not a great deal of hazardous work? Accompanied on sites? Well trained? Within a month or so of joining I was on my own inspecting farms (that I knew very little about) in the middle of nowhere with farmers who were going through one of the worse times of their working lives. No one knew what farms I was visiting or when I was due back. Mobile phones wouldn't work in most of those locations. I was completley alone and vulnerable. You think that's acceptable? I could give you other 'stories' too. Yes. I think you live a blinkered life but I think that you do that by choice judging by your posts. Blissful ignorance. Clairel, surely all trainee inspectors feel the same way. It is not easy at all when first we start out... I started as an HSE agricultural inspector in 1990 and always preferred to work in agriculture even when absorbed into the multi-groups. I worked in FOD for the whole of my 22 years before "retiring" in 2011. I accompanied many trainee inspectors on farm visits as visiting farms, and the smaller factories, was then seen as a suitable learning environment. The trainee inspector would shadow an experienced inspector and then do lead visits until considered sufficiently knowledgeable and confident to do visits on their own. When solo visiting, the area and farms to be visited would/should have been discussed with the Principal Inspector. I think many would have considered their agricultural knowledge to be low, or non-existent, but the idea was that they would have the challenge of achieving entry to a working premise and demonstrate the ability to recognise missing guards and dodgy equipment, poorly-stored chemicals, etc. I think all trainee inspectors, both male and female, felt very much alone and vulnerable when first they started out. (I remember that a male inspector was so nervous that he managed to lock his keys in the boot of his car, and found himself stranded with a somewhat hostile farmer.) I guess the period you are referring to must be the Foot and Mouth crisis of 2001 and it was certainly a terrible time for farmers and the rural community (though HSE, like everybody else, was not allowed to visit livestock farms). Incidentally, I still do have my old RA for farm visits.
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