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Mark Denyer  
#1 Posted : 12 March 2013 10:07:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mark Denyer

Hi all,

At present we expect companies that we approve for work to have employers / public liability of 10 million but are seeking some guidance on what kind of bench mark we should be expecting from self employed individuals who do not employ anyone and are not under our direct control.

Any help would be much appreciated

Regards
David Bannister  
#2 Posted : 12 March 2013 11:55:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Mark, this is a question that is better answered by you or your work colleagues. You are the ones employing the contractors and you should know (much better than anyone here) what is being done, what the potential is for disruption, damage or harm and what affect this would have on your business. Do your own risk assessment, seeking input as necessary from the bean-counters and lawyers.

Thus a photocopier service engineer has a very different potential to cause financial loss to your business than the demolition waste removal contractor.

A self-employed person with no employees should not be required to purchase EL insurance.
Mark Denyer  
#3 Posted : 12 March 2013 13:01:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mark Denyer

Hi David,
Correct me if i'm wrong but self employed people would surely still need EL insurance unless they are labour only and covered by ours. The contractors we we will engaging will be mainly electricians and plumbers for emergency call out work at voids mainly

David Bannister  
#4 Posted : 12 March 2013 14:19:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Hi Mark, EL insurance is protecting the employer against claims by employees: No employees = no liability for harm to them = no possibility of any claims from employees against the employer.

Harm to them by your people is PL; harm by them to your people is their PL, possibly your EL.

Hope this makes sense.
Mark Denyer  
#5 Posted : 12 March 2013 14:39:24(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mark Denyer

Hi David,
Presumably they need some form of insurance though in case they cause injury to themselves.....? I believe this is called 'combined insurance' which i would imagine is both PL and EL
Phil Grace  
#6 Posted : 12 March 2013 16:13:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Mark,
David is right on this... no employees = no need for Employers' Liability insurance.

If they wish to cover themseleves in event that they fall off their own ladder then they need to take out, for example, Personal Accident Insurance. This will give them an income plus a lump sum for certain types of injury - as set out in the policy terms. They could also purchase Income Protection - which as its name implies would give them an income in the event that they were unable to work through accident or illness e.g. cancer. Again, the policy will contain specific terms, conditions etc governing when monies will be paid out.

Phil
stevie40  
#7 Posted : 14 March 2013 12:06:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

Mark Denyer wrote:
Hi David,
Presumably they need some form of insurance though in case they cause injury to themselves.....? I believe this is called 'combined insurance' which i would imagine is both PL and EL


The situation would never arise though. Liability insurance is there to cover your legal liabilities for civil claims for damages (and costs related to a criminal prosecution).

UK law will not permit a person to sue themselves so the sole trader cannot claim against their own EL cover for injuries to themselves. This is why the EL cover is worthless for sole traders with no employees.

As Phil mentions, they need to take out a different type of insurance policy, designed to pay out for injury to themselves, irrespective of the legal liabilities involved.
rodgerker  
#8 Posted : 14 March 2013 14:42:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rodgerker

Most of the posts have concentrated on the EL side, but if I may return to the Public Liability aspect with the following comments.

A small firm can cause an enormous amount of damage and financial loss to an end user as a larger organisation can.

I am aware of a large retail store that during a refurbishment a third tier contractor cut through asbestos ceiling tiles which led them to closing a whole floor of the store for six weeks while is was "decontaminated" and have all the "potentially contaminated stock" destroyed. I stopped counting the cost of the incident when it got above £7 million!

Also worth considering. Someone once said to me that if you were working at a stately home, a £10 million insurance might not go far if you damaged a painting.

Therefore, you need to be the company pessimist and consider the worst possible option.

Rodger Ker
Mark Denyer  
#9 Posted : 18 March 2013 11:24:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mark Denyer

Thanks your your advice all :)
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