Rank: Forum user 
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We're looking at implementing an alcohol testing procedure. Does anyone have any experience, good or bad please. E.g. what limit is acceptable? are there HR issues? Any policies I could look at?
Paul
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Rank: Super forum user
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Can only be a good thing. Others may not and will not agree here, but in my roll as an electrician and H&S chap the answer has got to be ZERO. Need a drink? Take the day off and get hammered.
Need a job? Come to work sober.
Need to drive to a meeting with clients? Stay off the drink.
It looks bad and tells the client that you have scant regard to safety (unless of course they too feel that they are super people and the their brain has special properties).
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Rank: Super forum user
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Experiences all bad Paul.
We went for the current drink drive limit. Had to buy 2 professional breathalysers which then had to be calibrated. Had to have a testing protocol agreed by all which raised a load of HR issues, particularly thorny issue was when to test, on what grounds. Testing could only be done by the occupational nurse which left the evening and night shift uncovered, etc etc.
Spent nearly a year working with a huge team before it went live, lasted 2 months and was quietly binned, terrible waste of time money and effort.
That said, I could never condone someone coming into work under the influence of any intoxicant but if you start looking at alcohol you need to look at drugs, prescribed and otherwise which is just as debilitating and common.
There may be other colleagues out there who were successful in this regard, just didn't work for that particular company.
The time and effort you want o put in must depend on the risk you are trying to manage. If you have m/c operators or fleet drivers then you should do something in this space.
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Rank: Forum user
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At my previous employer we had D&A testing and this altered through the years.
First it was pre-employment, then it moved also to lost time accidents, then moved even further to all accidents.
Also, we started with the European limit which is lower than the UK limit until eventually it was moved to zero.
It worked for us although we found people failed on the drugs test rather than the breathalyser. Will try to dig out an old policy (if I can find it), can you PM me your email.
Downside was the calibration was every 6 months and it will be sods law that it will be one of the so called "better workers" who fails the test. Be careful what you wish for.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Everyone who comes through our front gate be it employee, visitor, postman or CEO has to press a randomiser button, if it goes red they are tested. Tests are carried out by fully trained members of Management (1 day course ) we also test following any serious accident or RTI, or if we have reasonable suspicion.
We have two Breathalyzer's onsite, so that if one is away for calibration we always have one on site. Full procedure in place signed off by the Unions. Few mumbles at first but now everyone is used to it, no issues and an effective deterrent because there is no way of telling when the randomiser will go red! Our limit is below the current drink drive limit.
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Rank: New forum user
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we are also looking at implementing a similar scheme; advise we got from our transport dept was don't.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Google 'for cause testing' and go through the results - this will put you in the picture from a legal, HR and HS&E viewpoint and will answer all your questions - a lot have FAQ's section.
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Rank: Super forum user
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We carry out random drug and alcohol testing, and after any accident, we had the moaners when we first explained what the company was doing, and after the 28 days consultation process, we started the procedure, all testers are trained, and we have a policy in place, we have lost 2 employees through the testing, process, but at the end of the day, we have a safe site
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Rank: Super forum user
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Nice one terry. I wonder how the doubters would feel if one of their children or wife was killed by a Pratt with a drink problem?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Yes we use to carry out both "for cause testing" and "Random testing". We used an outside agency to conduct the testing. I did look at training people in house and buying our own kit, but the external service worked well.
I felt the prospect that they could be tested was generally enough. If following an incident or suspicion of a manager the external company could be called in. Hard to argue favouritism if external.
These agencies are used by construction companies and for rail work etc.
HR will need to be involved as you need lots of policies and sign ups and obviously what happens if any test is positive - rehabilitate or discipline. Lots for you to think about. An external service provider should be able to get to you in a few hours Max.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Webber27742
You have a PM
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Rank: Super forum user
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We have perated a drug and alcohol policy for many years. The emphasis is on deterrence but also support.
There are strict legal aspects for alcohol and drug testing and its easy to fall foul of employment law.
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Rank: Super forum user
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zimmy wrote: Pratt with a drink problem? Sailing close ;-)
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Rank: New forum user
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damelcfc wrote:zimmy wrote: Pratt with a drink problem? Sailing close ;-) To what? The spelling police?
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Dear All Very helpful thanks - (my email if you have any policy or related documents) is: paul.webber@treloar.org.ukand I work at: www.treloar.org.uk if you want to see what sort of stuff we do and why we are mindful about the drink driving issues. Paul
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Rank: Super forum user
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Paul
I agree with most of the comments so far. I introduced a program with OH to include rehabilitation for those with a problem. Using the SAMSHA levels for Drugs and the standard BAC for alcohol. Set a first action level on the European BAC level standard and then final at UK level. Zero for drugs.
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Rank: Super forum user
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zimmy wrote: Others may not and will not agree here, but in my roll as an electrician and H&S chap the answer has got to be ZERO.
Obviously I agree that drinking and (most but not all) work situations do not mix. That was a subject of fierce debate sometime back as some of us think it is acceptable for an office worker to have a pint at on a Friday lunchtime if their circumstances dictate it is safe to do so. HOWEVER, my real point is that although I think drink and drug testing can be beneficial in some work situations I dont think a zero policy would be workable due to the amount of time that alcohol stays in the system, some products that contain alcohol etc. There needs to be some margin allowance IMO. In fact I think too much emphasis is placed on alohol and illegal drugs and not the huge problem of people on prescription drugs that affect ability but are not required to be declared to the employer.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Clairel - hear, hear! Sooooo many prescription drugs and over the counter preparations have side affects that can affect an individuals ability to carry out their work. Some common examples include remedies for hay fever causing drowsiness and affecting balance; some cough mixtures also cause drowsiness and affect ones ability to operate machinery - to mention but two!
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Rank: Guest
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I wonder whether a company could be fined under FFI if someone was caught over the limit in their company car ?
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks once again to everyone. There's some interesting points being made. Prescription medication can give a warning about driving (re. drowsiness).
All of this and conecting it to FFI, I imagine if an organisation do NOTHING to manage the potential (typical risk management/assessment approach), I imagine FFI could be applied. Whether it would be used in this way only time will tell.
I'm surpprised nobody has made the comment about the most obvious risk, which is probably driver training (enhanced and work related) and the general ability to drive well. Arguable it would be better to invest in this rather than alcohol if it had to be one or the other.
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Rank: Super forum user
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bjc wrote:I wonder whether a company could be fined under FFI if someone was caught over the limit in their company car ? No because drink driving is a traffic offence and the HSE do not enforce in relation to traffic offences (even if you are technically at work).
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Rank: Super forum user
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webber27742 wrote:
I'm surpprised nobody has made the comment about the most obvious risk, which is probably driver training (enhanced and work related) and the general ability to drive well. Arguable it would be better to invest in this rather than alcohol if it had to be one or the other.
Probably because the title is Drink Driving ? just a guess. For acceptable limits you may want to look at what others accept. I don't think it should be zero for either. Some drugs are not illegal and I believe they can stay in your body weeks /months. Though I would not take or advocate you will need to take care not to infringe peoples rights. We used to take the stance that if an employee came forward with a problem we would work with them, If it was found out by other means then more likely the disciplinary route.
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Rank: Super forum user
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International research for e.g. HSE and the Australian Government has established no link between recreational use of alcohol and drugs and workplace accidents, whilst for many these tests are considered to have significant human rights issues - to the extent that they are banned in at least one EU nation, Finland.
See HSE Research Report 193 "The scale and impact of illegal drug use by workers" and "Work-Related Alcohol and Drug Use - A Fit for Work Issue", published by the Ozzie Govt.
Government stats indicate that nearly one third of workers under 30 have taken drugs in the last 12 months. We have to assume that a significant proportion of e.g. any major employer's workforce will also have done, unless not gambling with the regimes in safety critical sectors such as rail.
Given the length of time that abuse can be detected this could have a severe negative impact on recruitment, let alone retention. [Oh, and I have never been to Amsterdam where it would be perfectly legal to have the odd joint!]
Regards, Peter
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Rank: Forum user 
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Heres an interesting example:
Physical education teacher works across 3 schools and has to drive to get from one to the other as part of his daily duty.
He has abad cold so takes Sudafed ( Symptomatic relief) Has a car accident. If your policy is to test after accidents! Question do you test? If he is positive pseudoephidrine what action do you take?
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Rank: Guest
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Clairel wrote:bjc wrote:I wonder whether a company could be fined under FFI if someone was caught over the limit in their company car ? No because drink driving is a traffic offence and the HSE do not enforce in relation to traffic offences (even if you are technically at work). Sloshed in the company car park ?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Private car park, company discipline.
Public car park, or a car park accessible, and open, TO the public while the premises are open, police as well.
I know of several people who have been summarily dismissed because of drunkenness on work premises (and a few who were told to go home....and then drove there..)
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Rank: Guest
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Rank: Super forum user 
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As others allude, such a policy would (in terms of both relative risk and fairness) also extend to those operating machines and those making judgement decisions. In a healthcare context (your area) that includes (at least) those prescribing and administering medication and those carrying out medical/surgical procedure.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Some rather strange views 'prat(t) with a drinking problem', it's not the emplyers job to deal with this unless of course it comes to light that someone has been drinking.
Christmas party's? next day driving, some may not drink for an entire year until this point
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Rank: Super forum user
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Don't drink and drive. Taking a drug that makes you feel sleepy? Don't drive. Grow up and take a long hard look. Judgment impaired? Don't drive (or use a machine etc.) Maim a child... Blame a runny nose? Come on take some responsibility. This is down to the individual. If a person takes anything that makes the head into a ball of wool at least try not to kill someone. if you think that someone is sleepwalking through the day at least ask them if they would like a lift home
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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All good advice as said earlier and the better 'for cause' systems all involve a chain of custody of some description.
Do just keep in mind that although it's not rocket science it is another can of worms just like anything else.
You do have to be fully aware that it does not just effect the obvious junkies and Wee-heads. There are lists of medicines that show up as a false positive not just Sudofed! Tonnes of people these days take co-codamol in one form or another and this will give a false positive for opiates (to name just one, I could go on but hopefully you get the picture) These are no longer prescription only and have several brand names.
Not everything on the list will actually alter the mental state of the individual into a cabbage not fit for anything.
Just be aware- thats all I'm saying and do some reading up on the subject as ever to get the full picture.
Nothing is ever cut and dry is it, so don't get fooled into thinking D&A Policies are any different.
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Rank: Forum user
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Make sure you buy a good reputable alcohol tester ( Used by Police)that will stand up in any tribunal otherwise a cheap one may cause you HR problems
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Rank: Super forum user
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It may help to read the label
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