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Hospital Boy  
#1 Posted : 21 March 2013 18:36:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hospital Boy

A few colleagues have raised the issue, where in their role they have little or no funds for CPD or even courses to for fill their role. So, my question is: what training have you had in your role in the NHS? Are you supported to maintain your competence? I believe one of the accreditation company's are developing one to accredit fire risk assessor s who only work in the NHS. Would you go down this route? Interested in members views Cheers HB
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#2 Posted : 21 March 2013 19:21:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Why do you want to spend taxpayers' money to complete your CPD? I presume that you want to go on a course, or to an exhibition, conference etc. But CPD can and does include so much more than that. It entails reading, journals and textbooks, with access to resources through a variety of professional bodies etc, membership of which is tax deductible. That should give you a very good start If you are an NHS employee then you have access to so much more, almost all of it free of charge - the taxpayer has already done that for you. The resources available amount to an enviable list, but you may have to do a little work to find them, and then find the correct arrangements for access.
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 21 March 2013 21:36:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

My CPD is almost all based on what I do. As a consultant I work for various clients and find there is always something new for me to do, research, invent, learn etc. I do attend some of the branch monthly meetings, they are free of course, but I find I can achieve my CPD without attending the many expensive courses and events there are these days. Can the hospital fire safety people get together and look at ways of improving what they do, possibly do some work in each other's hospitals and learn new techniques that way?
Hospital Boy  
#4 Posted : 21 March 2013 21:47:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hospital Boy

Sorry, After reading my post again, it is not clear. The post was not about maintaining CPD but training, and how to keep yourself competent in the role of a fire advisor within the NHS. There is a strong argument at present regarding accreditation for fire advisors in the NHS. That's the views I was after. What training have you had, and has any additional training been paid for by your trust?
jarsmith83  
#5 Posted : 22 March 2013 09:10:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

- Membership to a professional body specializing in fire safety (Institute of Fire Engineers?) - A fire recognized fire qualification (NEBOSH Fire Safety and Risk Management/CFPA European Fire Safety Diploma?) - Relevant experience (2 years or more experience working in the area in which you providing advice) - Proof of relevant CPD (As previously stated, access to technical documents and documenting your reading) Reference Article 18 of the RRFSO2005 regarding competence - A person is to be regarded as competent for the purposes of this article where he has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assist in undertaking the preventive and protective measures. You might get loads of answers regarding this, above is what I would expect........
Psycho  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2013 12:49:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

Hospital Boy wrote:
little or no funds for CPD or even courses to for fill their role. HB
if the person has not done the courses then they should not be in the role See HTM05-01 Page 19 it says exactly what the person should have to be a fire safety advisor CPD --- if your NAHFO branch is ran as good as mine and you attend all of the meetings the outside speakers and the training given and new advances meantioned and gone through at the meetings will give you ample credits towards your CPD there are also plenty of free courses to attend such as hilti goingthrough there fire stopping and fire door companies telling of there products , the local iosh branch usally runs others free of charge on health and safety so cpd can be free as long as you search it out or ask your boss they may give you £6000 towards something like offshore fire fighting, or takling underground mine fires - a bit of practicle training never comes in wrong -- mine wont give me a fiver for a fire sign , so practicle for me is a no no even though it would take me back to the good old days of fire balls , protection sprays and breathing apperatus ahh yes the good old days when they used wood, tar and old tyres with diesal poured on, a super heated temperatures -- now training is a small gas fire with no smoke if there is its false, Health and Safety???? Stops Fun
martinw  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2013 19:43:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

You in the right job Psycho? You manage fire safety in a NHS trust and you say that health and safety gets in the way? Sorry mate - fire safety management is an offshoot of health and safety management, not the other way round, and is just a specialisation. Don't care if you are or are not ex fire service, makes no difference to me. I know HB and Messy and they are exceptional - one is ex fire service, the other not(not in that order), and that is not why they are so good at their jobs: they care deeply and are experts in their field. The point is that if they were in health and safety, they would be as good at managing that as they are when as they do now, managing fire safety. Doing courses increases your knowledge much more than sitting listening to a marketing talk, even though it gets you free sarnies at a NAHFO meeting. And if your employer is not providing you with the basics you may want to question your ongoing competence. And page 19 of 05-01: so what? Plenty of fire advisers do not have all of the required features - I have never been a member of any fire accreditation organisation but it did not stop me being a pretty good fire adviser. And really dangerous training which may have happened twenty years ago was stopped for a reason - that is was really dangerous.
messyshaw  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2013 15:59:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

Psycho: I am a bit confused about your post. Unless I am mistaken, you seem to be deriding Hospital Boy's grumble about his employer having insufficient funds for training. You seem to be saying that 'free' training is available, so there's no need for employers to pay out for courses. If that is your view, then I totally disagree. I have absolutely nothing against the training/CPD events that you refer to and attend many myself. However, IMHO your employer is obliged by the Fire Safety Order to provide fire safety training for their fire safety advisor - that is, if you set up your management systems wisely. Let me explain how it works with my employer: An employer must appoint competent persons to assist him with fire safety duties (paraphrased from Article 18). Furthermore, he is obliged to provide staff training which must "be provided in a manner appropriate to the risk identified by the risk assessment" (Article 21). In the fire risk assessments I produce for my employers, the FRA report states that staff training will be provided in accordance with the companies fire safety strategy. And guess what, the fire safety strategy has a paragraph that says the employer is responsible to provide adequate training to allow the company's Fire Safety Officer to maintain his competence to allow him/her to carry out their duties in accordance with Article 18. OK, I have managed this as I complied the fire safety strategy, which my employers signed off after passing the document through their legal team. The result is I get access to a reasonable amount of training every year, paid for by my employers. I respect that they are a responsible publicly funded Govt Dept (not a NHS Trust) so do not the backside out of this arrangement. I have attended courses on fire investigation, fire alarms and sprinklers in the last two years. (& free events) I simply could not work for any organisation who did not acknowledge my professional status and provide adequate continuation training. I also work under tight financial budgets, but again would have difficulty if my employer's attitude resembled your (presumably light hearted ) description of yours, in that they would not "give me a fiver for a fire sign". What sort of attitude is that?
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