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Melbouch  
#1 Posted : 25 April 2013 13:09:59(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Melbouch

At my last workplace risk assessments were carried out by trained employees and validated by the H&S Team. RAs were not consulted on by the Union however any procedures arising from the RA were. I recently started a new job and due to the prevalent culture (think 1970s) the union consult on everything from the simplest H&S info poster to risk assessments. The union reps often do not carry out the activities being assessed and if they then comment or disagree with the RA this can cause problems with the author who actualy does the job. This can lead to a never ending cycle of disagreement which can mean it takes weeks or months for an RA to go 'live' and in some cases the RA never goes 'live'. Can I ask if anyone else consults on risk assessments and if you do, how do you manage comments from union members who do not carry out the activity?
stevedm  
#2 Posted : 25 April 2013 13:54:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I have a very similar client at the moment and the only way I have managed to get around it is by having the Union safety reps included in the RA or in some cases acting as the facilitator for the RA themselves. Does take time to get that through as culture change always does...
bilbo  
#3 Posted : 25 April 2013 14:03:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

RA's are NOW and it is unreasonable if the TU's are delaying these. You need to get this raised at your health & safety meeting to agree a way forward that allows for reasonable input from theTU's but that also allows the organisation to comply with its legal duty. Don't get me wrong TU's often play a very valid and important part in RA's and safety generally - but they can't be allowed to railroad the system. Regulators would take a dim view of this I feel.
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 25 April 2013 14:04:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Have you asked them why they want to see very single risk assessment? We consult our TUS colleagues all of the time on things like management policies and procedures but never on the risk assessments and individual SOPs; there’d be just too many. Is it because they don’t trust you (ie management) to do them? Perhaps they need reassurance on behalf of their members? Alternatively they could just be doing it to justify their existence to their members. In that case perhaps you can get them involved in something more creative like promoting a positive H&S culture or some such stuff?
Melbouch  
#5 Posted : 25 April 2013 15:20:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Melbouch

I agree with you bilbo! But historicaly management have bowed to thier demands as the show must literaly go on. However I do need to change things as I even have to consult them on my objectives for the next year!!!! I think it's a combination of all of those things A Kurdziel, and that they think they have the upper hand because of the industry we're in. I sometimes wonder why I left the Fire Service it was all so simple then.... Thanks for your comments I will try to establish what they feel they need to see and take it from there...
NigelB  
#6 Posted : 25 April 2013 15:45:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NigelB

Maybe the TU Safety Reps have read para 15 of the ACoP to the Management Regs: 'The risk assessment process needs to be practical and take account of the views of employees and their safety representatives who will have practical knowledge to contribute.' It could be that they saw Appendix 3 in 'Consulting workers on health and safety': HSE L146 referring to the Management Regs: 'Employers should involve employees and their representatives when deciding on appropriate preventative and protective measures and in implementing them.' Perhaps when they read the Safety Representatives and Safety Committee Regulations 1977 they understood that the 'Employers must consult safety representatives in good time with regard to matters concerning their health and safety at work.' In my experience trade union organisation at a local level is simply a reflection of management culture: 1970s style management gets a 1970s style reaction. So.... Some things tried elsewhere: 1 Joint Training: Get the Reps, managers and supervisors together and put the problems on the table. 'Facilitate' an agreed system for dealing with risk assessments based on what they are concerned about not what managers think should be superimposed. 2 Discuss and seek agreement about what the role of the safety rep actually is. As few have taken the time to do this, a variety of opinions exist in the safety reps own minds and those of managers/supervisors. 3 Discuss the issue with the safety reps formally; get to the bottom of the problem: seek an agreed solution. 4 Seek an agreed strategic plan for health and safety that has employee, safety rep and manager input. People support what they help create. Curious that safety reps get the blame for management failings. Perhaps a course for managers and safety reps on how to achieve a positive health and safety culture might be helpful. Cheers. Nigel
bob youel  
#7 Posted : 26 April 2013 06:50:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

What do U really mean by this comment "At my last workplace risk assessments were carried out by trained employees and validated by the H&S Team" Basically; in my view; All RA's should be carried out by trained people along with those actually undertaking the work and in many cases it should be those undertaking the work that undertake the activity as its only they who really know the ins and outs and where poss facilitators should be involved to support the activities and all consultation/communication systems should be adhered to and managed properly - I never validate another persons RA but I can/do point them in the right direction!
JJ Prendergast  
#8 Posted : 26 April 2013 08:06:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Sounds like the original poster works in the NHS. Run by the unions.
stevedm  
#9 Posted : 26 April 2013 08:19:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I agree with all of the comments made in relation to risk assessments, however caution others (and myself) that this doesn't become a Union Bashing thread... That said there are still areas and industries with cultures that are back in the 1970 style of TU communication...We just have to accept that and find a way of getting the balance right...And using all the kit in out tool box as Safety (Change) Practitioners to make it happen for the benefit of all..... Understanding the behaviour of others is key to the change... For instance I have anecdotal evidence from a certain NHS site in the news over the last few months that some front line staff are, as a result of the interest and reports, become very unsure of how to react to this subject (and lots of other clinical risks) and in turn this conflict will not allow them to take a balanced view..
chris42  
#10 Posted : 26 April 2013 08:51:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Is the problem they have with the quality of the risk assessment or the new working conditions which are not really H&S, but has come out through H&S risk assessments. Then challenging the RA is the only option they have to prevent altered working methods they don’t want. The other thought is:- are the issues they use to road block the RA process valid, are they genuine concerns and issues. The question that only you can answer is, are the management of whatever sector you are in actually taking the Michael, occasionally. Would the Unions like a more streamlined process, as others have said be part of it opposed to inspecting it, have they been asked. Of course they want to know about long term plans- wouldn’t you? Without real examples of something you tried to implement via RA and their concerns to it, it is hard to envisage the exact situation. All the best with your problem, it sounds as if you are stuck in the middle of a bigger fight
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