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Linda G  
#1 Posted : 07 May 2013 14:39:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Linda G

I have been asked by our senior management team to look at introducing a reverse parking only rule for our staff car park. We have not, thank goodness, had any incidents and it is great to hear our senior management take such a proactive approach but I do have some concerns to this approach, namely the ability of some of our staff to reverse park safely (some seem to have enough problems driving forwards into a space on an even keel)! We have approximately 120 employees parking in a well lit purpose designed car park (although I would like to see more segregation of pedestrians from the traffic routes). I would be interested to know of others experience with such a policy and any advice you could give in respect to practical considerations and lessons you have learnt. Many thanks Linda
CliveLowery  
#2 Posted : 07 May 2013 15:01:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Hi Linda, I know that one of the big PrincipalContractors has introduced this accross nearly all of their sites, a have others. I have not come accross any problems with it, although I was always taught to reverse park any how and have taught my offspring the same. When manouvering into the car parking space you have greater manouverability with the steering wheels to the rear of the direction of travel - hence the reason industrial forklifts tend to have rear whel steer. If drivers struggle to reverse (or go forward) getting them over the pyscological hurdle will be the hardest part. Regards Clive
Steve e ashton  
#3 Posted : 07 May 2013 15:32:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

There was some discussion on this a while ago that will help you get various opinions on the issues - http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...aspx?g=posts&t=94959 Hope this helps... Steve
Tigers  
#4 Posted : 07 May 2013 15:36:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

Why not get the staff to drive Kia's they have the sensors fiited to permit auto parking. Other cars may have the same facility - frightening.
Linda G  
#5 Posted : 07 May 2013 16:24:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Linda G

steve e ashton wrote:
There was some discussion on this a while ago that will help you get various opinions on the issues - http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...aspx?g=posts&t=94959 Hope this helps... Steve
Thanks Steve, there is certainly plenty of opinion posted there to be getting on with!
boblewis  
#6 Posted : 07 May 2013 16:41:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Be very aware that blue badge parking has to have scope for exemption. If not the process becomes discriminatory Bob
HeO2  
#7 Posted : 07 May 2013 16:50:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Is it just me, or are you just as likely to reverse over a pedestrian when you initially park up as when you leave the site? Phil
damelcfc  
#8 Posted : 07 May 2013 17:39:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

Glad I don't work at your place. I will happily drive around for 15-20 minutes until I find a space I can pull forward into. I will not reverse park.
pete48  
#9 Posted : 07 May 2013 18:47:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

There is plenty of research and evidence to show that not only is it safer but also more economical to reverse park. Search any of the big motor insurance companies or the Inst of Advanced Motorists for detail. The question is about reversing into a space that you can see rather that out into a space that you cannot always see clearly and will more likely contain things to hit, human or otherwise! As to a rule?? Maybe not to start with, perhaps an awareness campaign using some of the benefits found in the research that may not be immediately apparent to many drivers. That is how I came to learn about the benefits and now use it by default everywhere I can and not just whilst at work. p48
ricci  
#10 Posted : 07 May 2013 22:17:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ricci

You see people reverse parking at supermarkets etc. They then discover that the storage space in most vehicles is at the rear and as they are parked close to a vehicle behind them have great difficulty loading or unloading the vehicle. The spaces need to be redesigned to allow reverse parking and unloading if we wish to change the way we drive and park.
Victor Meldrew  
#11 Posted : 07 May 2013 22:52:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

I don't believe it..... AGAIN.....almost exactly two years to the day. Maybe a god idea to send a copy of this thread... with the one from a couple of years ago.... to Ben Elton author of the farcical TV programme The Wright Way..... plenty of materials for him.
Grizzly  
#12 Posted : 08 May 2013 01:00:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grizzly

+1 with damelcfc. I would never consider reversing into a parking space. Reverse parking rules are a pointless over-reaction.
Young80157  
#13 Posted : 08 May 2013 07:59:40(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Young80157

I always reverse park, we don't have a rule at work to reverse park and most of the other employees do as well. As for having the rule reverse parking only is that not just wasting officer time. When I hear others says 'I can't reverse' then they shouldn't be on the roads, surely you were taught to reverse and had to, to pass your test. Just a bug bear of mine and yes I am a lady driver and hate most other lady drivers as they are the worst for saying 'I can't reverse'.
imwaldra  
#14 Posted : 08 May 2013 09:41:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

I first came across this rule years ago in the Middle East, for an organisation where there were a lot of company cars. At that time the justification was to prevent minor damage due to low speed 'bumps', with the justification that when arriving at a parking space the driver is more aware of any other traffic in the area - and it seemed to work in respect of the resulting insurance repairs! So the justification isn't only about pedestrians. I agree with the points made re supermarket parking and so myself usualy park forward in these.
Linda G  
#15 Posted : 08 May 2013 10:19:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Linda G

Well thank you everyone for your feedback, I certainly did not expect to raise such controversy! I think I will recommend that we make it advisory and educate the benefits to employees, special thanks to Pete48 for your pearls of wisdom. BR Linda
Invictus  
#16 Posted : 08 May 2013 11:25:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Young80157 wrote:
I always reverse park, we don't have a rule at work to reverse park and most of the other employees do as well. As for having the rule reverse parking only is that not just wasting officer time. When I hear others says 'I can't reverse' then they shouldn't be on the roads, surely you were taught to reverse and had to, to pass your test. Just a bug bear of mine and yes I am a lady driver and hate most other lady drivers as they are the worst for saying 'I can't reverse'.
I don't know why they shouldn't be on the road, it would worry me more if they had difficulty driving forward, not very often you need to reverse.
Samsmith  
#17 Posted : 08 May 2013 12:53:16(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Samsmith

Does anyone know if there is published research or other information which has shown that reverse parking makes a significant difference to accident rates? I can accept that that reverse parking feels safer, for the reasons which others have outlined above, but does it really make enough of a difference for a company to want to have a policy requiring reverse parking at its site? I cannot help feeling that any reduction in risk is probably not that significant. If the practice of reverse parking really did bring about a significant reduction in accident rates, wouldn’t many more organisations be requiring it in their car parks? Why do some companies have reverse parking policies while most do not? Where is the evidence that it makes for a safer car park?
boblewis  
#18 Posted : 08 May 2013 12:58:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Try reverse parking with Hand controls and you will soon learn how difficult it is. Bob
pete48  
#19 Posted : 08 May 2013 17:56:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

@samsmith. Yes there is plenty of evidence, search as I indicated in #9 above and you will find it. It is a good practice matter rather than an absolute safety rule and that may be why there is no universal approach to its use. p48
David68  
#20 Posted : 08 May 2013 19:44:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David68

I too always reverse park, even in supermarket car parks. It is a habit that was drilled into me when I was in the RAF.
Samsmith  
#21 Posted : 08 May 2013 20:52:48(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Samsmith

pete48 wrote:
@samsmith. Yes there is plenty of evidence, search as I indicated in #9 above and you will find it. It is a good practice matter rather than an absolute safety rule and that may be why there is no universal approach to its use. p48
Thanks Pete. I searched and found lots of advice along the lines of " In a car park you should reverse into parking spaces. This will make it safer when you’re driving out" but nothing which I would call evidence proving or even giving a strong indication that it is safer. The whole reverse parking thing appears to be built around the feelings of individuals or the collective views of organisations that it is safer based on intuition - but without any evidence that it actually is safer and reduces the numbers of accidents.
Jake  
#22 Posted : 09 May 2013 09:59:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

Is this really a prudent use of all our time discussing? Probably not. Will I still give my thoughts? yeap! Someone mentioned if reverse parking significantly recues risk, I would suggest it most probably does not, but would depend on how many cars and what your incident rate is! I would image the vast majority of UK company car parks have a relatively (or very) low incident of dings, let alone any harm being causes to a pedestrian, so the risk reduction is clearly not going to be significant in these examples. Re the query about research / evidence, I haven’t got any, but if you apply common sense then the average person should be able to deduce that the risk of you hitting another pedestrian or vehicle is reduce if you reverse park (whether the risk was anything other than negligible in the first instance is irrelevant). Just think: - if you revers park you turn up at the parking space and know what is behind you and you look left / right into the parking space and know what is (or hopefully is not) there. You complete your manoeuvre with no surprises, as you had clear sight of the area in which your car is moving (this does assume a level of competence for the driver to not hit anything stationary). When you come to leave, you again have a clear view of the road you are entering, so all good there. - If you park nose in then again the parking element is fine (you can see where you're going) (although it is harder to park nose in due to steering being at the front). However when you come to leave you need to reverse into the traffic route where your view will be obstructed or reduced, this is the risk that reverse parking eliminates. I don't think you need any scientific evidence for everyone to agree the above, it’s fairly obvious! Should you worry about all the office politics and fall out for making such a system mandatory? I'd suggest resources could be spent more wisely!
RayRapp  
#23 Posted : 09 May 2013 15:32:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Not read every post, but I would like to go on record that I'm not a great fan of mandatory reverse parking. Many trade persons need access to the rear of their vehicle and having it butted against another vehicle is not ideal for unloading. In my local high street some bright spark decided to put in parking bays which are oblique to the traffic and are obviously designed for reverse parking. All well and good. Except that some drivers do not reverse park and worse, drivers from the opposite side of the road cut across the road to park. End result, the high street has become a nightmare due to vehicles appearing from all directions.
jay  
#24 Posted : 09 May 2013 16:12:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

There is a difference between "company car parks" on company premises that have better controls and "public car parks" (various types, including bays adjacent to roads carrying vehicular traffic) I presume the original question was with reference to company car parks. On our site, we encourage reverse parking, but it is not a rule as we feel that the incident data for our site does not justify making it mandatory. I very much doubt that there have been peer reviewed studies on the this topic, although there is information highlighting the advantages of reverse parking. Ultimately, on a private company car park, an employer who owns/controls it can pretty much apply any such rules, although better ones will consult before implementing it. If there is no or ineffective consultation, the employer could end up in the news--see below. http://www.dailymail.co....-want-yellow-carded.html
bob youel  
#25 Posted : 10 May 2013 07:23:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

yes introduced one yes it works well with no exceptions yes it is enforced properly DDA/equality is accounted for, respected and treated properly In my personal view it must be common sense and logical that looking forward as you pull away from a parking position into a pedestrian / vehical area is better than looking backwards over your shoulder especially so if children, wheel chair users and the like are likely to be present as if people have real problems in reversing I really question their ability to drive / control a vehicle in the first place
RayRapp  
#26 Posted : 10 May 2013 10:13:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Bob, I can't deny reverse parking is good practice from a pedestrian perspective. I wonder if any supermarkets have enforced or encouraged the practice where there is far greater vehicle/pedestrian interface issues? I suspect not.
colinreeves  
#27 Posted : 10 May 2013 14:06:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

It seems that most responses are considering the risk to pedestrians if reversing out of a parking space. A local company requires reverse parking but for a totally different reason - it is a COMAH site and evacuation of staff is far quicker if all vehicles are facing outward.
John J  
#28 Posted : 10 May 2013 14:17:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

colinreeves wrote:
It seems that most responses are considering the risk to pedestrians if reversing out of a parking space. A local company requires reverse parking but for a totally different reason - it is a COMAH site and evacuation of staff is far quicker if all vehicles are facing outward.
Colin, They may say that but I am not aware of any COMAH site (or other hazardous industry) that relies on site occupants using their car in an emergency. It would be carnage.
colinreeves  
#29 Posted : 10 May 2013 14:22:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

John J wrote:
Colin, They may say that but I am not aware of any COMAH site (or other hazardous industry) that relies on site occupants using their car in an emergency. It would be carnage.
You may be right - but with 1000+ employees on site how else are you going to evacuate to over half a mile - wait for the local bus? (half a mile is the blast zone)
John J  
#30 Posted : 10 May 2013 14:31:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

colinreeves wrote:
John J wrote:
Colin, They may say that but I am not aware of any COMAH site (or other hazardous industry) that relies on site occupants using their car in an emergency. It would be carnage.
You may be right - but with 1000+ employees on site how else are you going to evacuate to over half a mile - wait for the local bus? (half a mile is the blast zone)
Run or walk. It would be a lot quicker than trying to get 1000+ cars through the gatehouse at the same time.
colinreeves  
#31 Posted : 10 May 2013 14:36:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

Something like 99% of vehicles are outside the gatehouse - http://goo.gl/maps/zCU7Y Picture must have been taken at a weekend as not many cars shown!
Sweep  
#32 Posted : 10 May 2013 15:52:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sweep

My understanding is that this concept was first introduced by the military. Reverse into space in peace. Drive out in an emergency.
boblewis  
#33 Posted : 10 May 2013 21:46:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Bob Y et al who believe that people should not be driving if they have specific difficulties in driving - please remember that such comments could be viewed as discriminatory. Are we to say pregnant women should not drive? Of course not but we seem to be saying disabled drivers should not be so doing Bob
dbeau  
#34 Posted : 11 May 2013 00:10:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
dbeau

Maybe the employer should encourage a cycling or car share scheme. Both are better environmentally and at least your passenger can act as Banksman when required to reverse park or exit the site etc.
Safety Man 1  
#35 Posted : 11 May 2013 09:22:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Man 1

Hi All On the project reverse parking is one of the five golden rules that the client has in place which I don't see a problem with as it works well in all car parking facilities.
Safety Man 1  
#36 Posted : 11 May 2013 09:23:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Man 1

Hi All On the project reverse parking is one of the five golden rules that the client has in place which I don't see a problem with as it works well in all car parking facilities.
boblewis  
#37 Posted : 11 May 2013 11:59:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Derek No exemptions then????
Betta Spenden  
#38 Posted : 11 May 2013 21:12:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

Linda. As some have correctly pointed out the theory of safety when reverse parking comes from the fact that you will take a good look into a slot prior to reversing in. Also, one point not raised is that staff tend to arrive at work in dribs and drabs. Some places I know have enforced the reversing into slots to avoid the SLIGHTLY HIGHER risk during the mad-rush at 5pm. That can be when everyone and his dog is rushing to get off the industrial estate. Especially to beat the queue at the traffic lights. This is also done at a time when the driver is in the most ergonomic position, i.e. facing the way that they are going. Remember an accident is an unintentional loss. That does include collision damage to other cars etc, not just running over people. These sort of incidents can go unreported as staff could settle via their own insurance. Does it save petrol/Derv? Yes I believe so, but not a vast amount. The theory is that the most un-economical gear in your car is reverse. The most un-economical time is when your engine is cold and on full choke. Reversing out of a slot puts the two together at the same time. That is not good and wastes fuel. The best thing is to reverse when the engine is running warm and at its most efficient. Then, when the engine is cold you drive straight out of a parking slot, as the revs go through 1200(ish) the auto choke is not needed and cuts out. Thus using less fuel in the fuel air ratio. Simples…… There are good reasons for it, few excuses for not doing it. True, every workplace is different and some may have valid reasons for not doing it. Those who work in the docks etc should not reverse park at the quay side. Social workers however can be at risk from violence during home visits and should always reverse park for quick departures. Shopping as an issue is totally irrelevant, I never reverse park then as I also often load onto the back seat and my hinges are on the leading edge. Unless of course the carpark has a path that runs between the slots. In that case I just reverse over/into the bollards. It fascinates me how so called elf n safety people, who make a living giving advice, can be so negative and demand written proof, when all that is needed is a bit of COMMON SENCE. I would focus on winning the hearts and minds of your staff first. Give them good reasons for introducing the reverse parking rule. Talk to the staff, put the reasons forward and use the carrot first, then introduce the stick at a later date. Crack on and good luck with that good idea. And I would paint the bollards a bright colour.
RayRapp  
#39 Posted : 11 May 2013 21:36:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

TBH I have better things to take up my time than worry about reverse parking at work. Little wonder people are losing respect for health and safety when we make such impositions.
Safety Man 1  
#40 Posted : 12 May 2013 10:29:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Man 1

Bob Where the project and car parking facilities probably differ from the normal. The project located in a Forrest on a mountain 6 miles away from a main road. The car park is mainly for 4x4's due to the access route and has a pedestrian walkway at the perimeter of the car park so when people exit there vehicles they do not walk across the car park area but use the pedestrian route that is marked with directional signage and has access points for entry. This is a client stipulation which is communicated in the induction process to all new site operatives however there is occasions where I have to apply common sense for new visitors and remind people if they forget. As management we should be leading by example.
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