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MEden380  
#1 Posted : 10 May 2013 12:53:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Recent Bangladesh Disaster May we all offer our sympathy to all the families and friends of the 900+ people that died in a totally preventable occurrence. These poor individuals died in circumstances that we would not tolerate in the Western Europe. I hope European companies that buy products from these type of businesses will think twice how garments are produced so cheaply and the ultimate cost that fellow human beings have paid.
peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 10 May 2013 13:04:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Yes and it's not just European retailers.
DP  
#3 Posted : 10 May 2013 13:09:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

MEden380, there are few who would disagree with your words but we cant be under any illusion that the many things we all consume and take fro granted (not just clothing) are manufactured in similar premises throughout the east. We have all been in the high street and picked up items and thought how can I get this 'for a quid' !! Now we know? A mere 100 year ago when 3 quarters of the world map was pink and built on steam generated for the coalfields of the UK the powers that be then were prepared to exploit life 'nearer home' for the same purpose - little changes when you reflect in either contemporary / recent history.
jay  
#4 Posted : 10 May 2013 16:33:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

The could be a way forward, but I "guess" that the multinational corporations that profitr the most do not influence it adequately. We have the World Trade Organisation, and despite all its flaws, the current level of globalisation and "free trade" is due to it, especially to & from the emerging and underdeveloped economies. The governance in these countries is riddled with corruption. Howwver, if these countries were required to attain an adequate level of governance within specified time scale or face surcharges /penalties through the WTO framework, there may be more action to do something about it. Last, but not least, if the the SA8000 Social Accountability standard was more widely know and its symbol marked on the products we buy, it may give visible assurance regarding compliance to minimum standards that address child labor, forced and compulsory labor, health and safety, freedom of association and right to collective bargaining, discrimination, disciplinary practices, working hours, remuneration etc. http://www.sa-intl.org/i....ViewPage&pageId=937 http://www.sa-intl.org/_.../2008StdEnglishFinal.pdf http://www.sa-intl.org/_...2004SAIGuidanceFinal.pdf http://www.sa-intl.org/i...ViewPage&PageID=1446 http://www.sa-intl.org/i....viewPage&pageID=732 http://www.sa-intl.org/ It would also provide the developed world economies a more level playing field. Certified Facilities List http://www.saasaccredita...g/certfacilitieslist.htm
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#5 Posted : 10 May 2013 17:25:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

A laudable sentiment Jay, but how much more will YOU pay? Such pleas for additional funding, whether directed at countries, the World Bank, UN or a charitable/aid organisation, always seem to target somebody else's pocket. It's easy to say that 'they should pay', but less easy to convince them that it is should be them and not someone else.
walker  
#6 Posted : 13 May 2013 08:16:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I agree with other posts but as I said last year ( when those textile workers were involved in a fire) these problems can be found much closer to home. I think other than boycotting the retail outlets we want to keep our nose out and get out own industries fixed. I could take you to hosiery factories within 5 miles of The Grange that would make your eye pop out. Seems HSE, Fire, Immigration & other government regulatory bodies are perfectly willing to turn blind eyes too.
Zimmy  
#7 Posted : 13 May 2013 12:55:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

All here (UK) guilty as charged of playing along in the game. Everyone of us throwing our arms in the air as usual but nothing will change. The orders will be past on to the next player. We get what we are prepared to pay for hence the demise of our industries. If the conditions have shocked you then where have you been the past few decades? These people live in boxes for the most part. The country is corrupt to the core and we trade with them knowing what goes on. What can we do about it? Give the H&S advice? A better bet would be clean water.
DP  
#8 Posted : 13 May 2013 13:02:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Zimmy - claen water would be a good one but my money is on fighter jets or other weapons systems that way we can keep what's left of our industry. Currupt is the word mate but not just them...........................
walker  
#9 Posted : 13 May 2013 13:08:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Pity we see other nation's failings but not our own. "They" are no more corrupt than here. The UK is riddlied with human trafficking, slavery (quite litterally!) and other forms of explotation. "We" are more devious however.
jay  
#10 Posted : 13 May 2013 14:53:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

No country's economy remains static. We were the pioneers in the Industrial Revolution and many inventions attributed to us, but there was not much competition as there was an assured market for finished goods in our colonies up to the time they became independent. The demise of our industries is more to do with the short-termism in investment and failing to modernise our "factories", extreme positions by owners/management vs unions and more recently, excessive reliance on the financial/service sector than "cheap imports". There are other factors, specifically the invention of the cargo container and the contianerised traffic logistics that has made transporation extremely cheap, enabling global trade. http://www.worldshipping...g_and_the_us_economy.pdf http://www.worldshipping...n/industry-globalization However, I do not have to worry here that a high rise building is structurally so unsafe that it may collapse-because building control have not vetted the plans or the designer/builder has rersorted such significant levels of fraud.
Corfield35303  
#11 Posted : 13 May 2013 15:49:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Corfield35303

walker wrote:
Pity we see other nation's failings but not our own. "They" are no more corrupt than here. The UK is riddlied with human trafficking, slavery (quite litterally!) and other forms of explotation. "We" are more devious however.
Walker - I appreciate the sentiment, but beg to differ. A leading international organisation on the topic would confirm that corruption very much relies on where you are, Bangladesh is worse than 'we' are, and you think thats just because we are better at hiding it...? http://www.transparency.org/cpi2011/interactive
Tigers  
#12 Posted : 13 May 2013 16:22:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

If we do pay more for goods and services it is not the poor beggers at the base of the triangle who gain by improved salaries or conditions. This can be seen as a game of risk played by owners/managers, only this time it is with human welfare and because there is less of a buffer to play with more significant failings are commonplace and more catastrophic. I have been going to the same hotel (abroad) for the past 5 years - the price has doubled for the equivelent holiday in this time. I know fuel and costs etc.have gone up but the major players are still only paying the Hotels the same and sometimes less for a room as they did 5 years ago. I tend to tip more as I know for certain the ones giving the service are receiving the payment direct and it is not going into the profit line of a multinationals. I also know that this is more difficult to help those at the sharp end who manufacture goods whether here or abroad. I would even question some charities who have senior managers on some vast salaries taking the money from those we intend to help. There is no answer except to do what you can when you can.
jay  
#13 Posted : 13 May 2013 17:22:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Conclusions of the ILO's high level mission to Bangladesh Joint statement issued by the tripartite partners at the conclusion of the ILO's high-level mission sent to Dhaka, Bangladesh, following the Rana Plaza Building collapse--4th May 2013 http://www.ilo.org/globa...m?shared_from=media-mail The last para states that ........"The tripartite partners(Bangladesh government, employers and workers) and the ILO acknowledge that the challenges are daunting but believe that, if international buyers and brands take increased responsibility for improving working conditions and safety and health and with the active support of development partners and donors, safety can and must be improved in all workplaces throughout Bangladesh" The proof will be in the puddi- let us wait and see what actually occurs!
Zimmy  
#14 Posted : 13 May 2013 18:45:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Hey jay, were were world leaders in the slave trade too ;-) Bristol etc springs to mind, and in a few short months we'll have another batch on the way. As for safe buildings, when was the last time anyone here had their electrical installations tested (Read HOME as well please) by someone qualified to test it? Most of the public have been conned into thinking that Trade Associations actually require people who have passed the exam to actually do the testing and inspections. And please don't use a 'Domestic electrician' five week wonder, either. More of that little gem at a later date. Now then, whare did I put my AK?
jay  
#15 Posted : 14 May 2013 11:36:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

How do we compare internationally in context of fatal and serious accident incidence rates, both at work and at home due to non-compliance/enforcement6 to Building Regulations and Health & Safety Regulations? Even one death could be construed as avoidable, but there is no point in looking at the "glass being half empty" all the time. The fact of the matter is that on a COMPARATIVE basis, the system of both regulation & enforcement in UK ,is much better than the emerging & developing economies. Of course we can and should improve. I look at it as a glass being half full rather that half empty( I could have used another analogy as the glass being 90% full instead of 10 % empty!) This view is not about being boastful or patronising or idealistic, but from personal experience of having either lived or worked in other countries (Kenya & Tanzania-18 years, India-16 years) and having experienced first hand the down side of what really was, and still remains bad/corrupt governance at national level Regarding historical governance aspects, nations move on and many have learnt from their History. I doubt whether there is any society at a national level, even at provincial level where there is no exploitation.
RayRapp  
#16 Posted : 14 May 2013 21:47:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

One could argue we all have a responsibility because of the desire to buy branded goods at the cheapest prices results in low wages and poor conditions to those in the developed world. Of course, the Governments of developing nations are just as complicit as are those few but relatively wealthy owners of factories who exploit their own people. Who knows, one day it may turn full circle?
jay  
#17 Posted : 15 May 2013 10:22:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Dhaka building collapse: Factories and buyers http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22474601 Eight top fashion retailers fail to sign Bangladesh safety accord--The accord on building safety in Bangladesh has been signed by Primark, Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein, Zara and Tesco http://www.guardian.co.u...o-sign-bangladesh-accord I do not think that for ALL the Brands listed, their clothing is that cheap, although it is from a handful. The significant profits are made by the factory owners, middleman and multinational companies.
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