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SBH  
#1 Posted : 14 May 2013 08:51:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

The hospital I work in has loads of slip / trip incidents in the Outpatients area when people are leaving. the hospital. We have painted the kerb edges yellow to highlight them, put up barriers & railings to prevent pedestrians engaging with vehicles, and we try to steer people to crossing points. The problem is the people fall off kerbs, trip over fresh air, dont look where they are going etc, especially as they leave with a mobile phone strapped to their ears, and then submit a claim!!! What more can we do? Obviously the trippers have to take some responsibility. Do we drop all kerbs, Do we have a one way pavement system - not good in evacuation. I am at a loss. Any Ideas? SBH
safetyamateur  
#2 Posted : 14 May 2013 09:10:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

From you've said here, I don't think there's much more you can do. Have any of these 'fresh air' claims ever succeeded? If you're defending them adequately with the steps you've taken, you might just monitor the situation.
Melrose80086  
#3 Posted : 14 May 2013 09:37:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Melrose80086

Are the barriers fences that effectively channel those exiting the building along the pavement towards the actual crossings or bollards where the person can walk between them as preventing them from actually stepping off the curb until a designated crossing would prevent them taking short-cuts. If the latter then perhaps replacing those with actual fence-type barriers would stop them. If however that's been installed and they are still climbing over the fence then falling, I think they would find it difficult to win their case in court as you can show the hospital has taken steps to prevent them crossing at these locations but they didn't observe this. An alternative could be a covered walkway to a dedicated pathway and crossings but would need to check fire evacuation routes etc with fire service so as not to create bottlenecks etc.
bilbo  
#4 Posted : 14 May 2013 10:23:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

I note you say the "in" the outpatients area but then you go on to describe your controls apparently "outside". Is it anything to do with the transition from the internal floor surface to the external pathway surface - have you considered this? Is it a lighting issue?
SBH  
#5 Posted : 14 May 2013 10:43:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Incidents occur when it is dry weather, when the day lighting is at its best. Perhaps we need to investigate designated walkways to crossings SBH
David Bannister  
#6 Posted : 14 May 2013 12:37:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Civil claims such as these should only succeed where negligence exists. How effective is the claims management regime?
Mr.Flibble  
#7 Posted : 14 May 2013 14:29:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mr.Flibble

Any CCTV in the area?
jwg  
#8 Posted : 14 May 2013 16:39:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jwg

People will fall no matter what you have in place (true, poor controls do increase the chance of falling to floor). If you believe what you have in place is suitable and sufficient, then defend the claims to your last breath - if you don't then the claim vultures will just keep circulating for their next feed. I would review any claims, successful or not, and ascertain what was identified as good practice which led to defending the claim and bad practice which has led to pay out, also speak to the insurance investigator for their opinion (e.g. NHSLA Investigator). In my experience we have paid out to some claims due to lack of suitable and sufficient documented risk assessments - although all appropriate controls were in place we just lacked that vital bit of paper (frustrating!). We had one claim where a member of staff fell down some stairs and suffered very serious, life & career changing injuries. Personal feelings aside, there were no problems with the stairwell so we denied the negligence claim and eventually it was dropped before going to court - why, were weren't negligent simple as that.
KieranD  
#9 Posted : 16 May 2013 05:52:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

SBH The most remarkable feature about your question is the absence of an quantified indicator of what you mean by 'loads'. In relation to David Bannister's constructive observation, Civil claims such as these should only succeed where negligence exists, you are well advised to use objective statistically robust measures to safeguard your organisation against claims of negligence. If someone wishes to claim £5K or more, it's not difficult for them to pay a safety ergonomist to evaluate the conditions in which alleged 'loads' of people fall. He/she can do so by investigating: a. what decision rule you are using to determine that your standard of risk assessment is suitable and sufficient: is it 1 in 1000, 1 in100, 5 in 100, 10 in 100 or what b. what objective evidence you collect to determine the proportion of users of the steps fall c. what scientific methods you use to analyse evidence and to calculate the probability value of a fall to users of different age groups, genders and with different classes o disabilities d. what statistical tests you use to relate the evidence you gather to the decision rule for acceptable number of falls e. how the evidence you gather to apply the decision rule is related to your appropriate scientific methods of preventing falls to 'loads'. He/she could also inform a court how such scientific methods have been in standard use in operations, quality, marketing and HR functions for decades and that there is no objective reason why they can't be systematically used to safeguard 'loads' of people.
SBH  
#10 Posted : 16 May 2013 09:58:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Thanks a load SBH
Asher  
#11 Posted : 16 May 2013 10:26:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Asher

Dear SBH, You seem to be doing a heap of things to prevent more incidents, take some encouragement from the fact that slips, trips and falls (commonly on the same level) are the most common cause of major injuries to employees.
Jake  
#12 Posted : 16 May 2013 10:31:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

My curisoity is getting the better of me, I want to know what Walker and JJ said (although I can guess the jist..)!! OP, if you were talking about a site with a "normal risk" population then I'd say you'd done more than enough and invest in making sure your claims management processes and procedures were as robust as possible (as previosuly mentioned) - but as you have a "high risk" population (possible poor eye sight, poor mobility / balance etc. etc.) then designated walkways (or rails to stop persons from walking up / down a curb) in high traffic routes guiding pedestrians to the dropped curb (with presumed zebra crossing or the like) may well be a prudent option to consider.
JJ Prendergast  
#13 Posted : 16 May 2013 10:40:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

I simply said it can be summarised as follows 1 Count the number of people who fall over 2 Put them into categories 3. Decide on your acceptance criteria for the number of people who fall over 4. Record the data for possible evidence / defending a claim Straight to the point, no waffle
walker  
#14 Posted : 16 May 2013 11:13:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I was commenting on the relevance of some posts to the real world
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