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Asher  
#1 Posted : 14 May 2013 10:44:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Asher

Dear All, I'm afraid I have a very stupid question, but the organisation I work in causes me to doubt myself continuosly. Our maintenance department has erected a scaffold to carry out repairs to some guttering and have reached a point they cannot access. The question was put to me as to whether they can use a stepladder on top of the scaffold to reach a bit higher to complete the work. I strongly advised against this, stating that ladders were to be used on stable ground only. I have been however unable to locate any piece of legislation which categorically slates such a practice, may I ask for some clarification and perhaps guidance to quotable legislation. Many thanks in advance.
leadbelly  
#2 Posted : 14 May 2013 12:58:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
leadbelly

You won't see such explicit detail in the law but see here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis10.pdf LB
Rob Jones  
#3 Posted : 14 May 2013 13:15:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob Jones

See paragraph 23 of this document; http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg402.pdf Regards
HSE_Steve  
#4 Posted : 14 May 2013 13:33:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HSE_Steve

Hi Rob Jones; doesn't that paragraph only give guidance against 'movable objects such as . . . tower scaffolds' though, which I quite agree with. Obviously I dont know the specifics of the OP's scaffold, i.e. dimensions, constructions etc but if it were, for example, a large, solid scaffold and someone wanted to use a stepladder in the middle of it, I personally wouldn't have a problem. I've known in the past when we've scaffolded out entire floors of manufacturing facilities (perhaps 50m by 50m), I certainly wouldn't think there was an issue of using a stepladder on that - indeed, I'd allow someone to do pretty much anything they'd do at ground level. A well built scaffold should not pose any more risk than working on the floor in my opinion. (not commenting on how he might be intending to get the step ladder up there). thanks Steve
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 14 May 2013 13:40:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Surely we need look no further than the WAHR? The requirement is to prevent or mitigate the result of a fall. If falling from the ladder means that I can potentially fall the combined height of the ladder AND the scaffold then the non-compliance is obvious. If as is suggested above the platform is of sufficient dimension not to exacerbate the result of a fall then all is well. Looking beyond that set of circumstances, there are ways to tie ladders and there are ways to locally extend the height of guard rails. Either way, step ladders would seem an inappropriate choice?
HSE_Steve  
#6 Posted : 14 May 2013 13:40:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HSE_Steve

Having read it again, maintenance department, repairing guttering . . . guess it probably is a tower scaffold and if thats the case then i'd say no, you shouldn't use a stepladder. Going outside this specific case though, I'd be interested to hear opinions on the more general subject of using other bits of equipment on scaffolds of various types.
SuGraham  
#7 Posted : 14 May 2013 13:43:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
SuGraham

Hi - I would advise against use of stepladder, if the scaffold has a stable platform then I would do a risk assessment and decide whether it was safe to use a normal ladder (tied in), however things to take into account; - is platform big enough - is it stable - what happens at top of ladder i.e. can work be completed with one hand leaving 3 points contact on ladder - will it be necessary to step off ladder onto unprotected edge - will someone foot ladder - what are emergency arrangements etc.etc.etc.
Davey  
#8 Posted : 14 May 2013 14:10:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Davey

Hello Ladders can be used if after assessing the risks the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and short duration. Short duration is taken to be between 15 and 30 minutes depending upon the task. Ladders can also be used for low risk work where there arefeatures on the site that mean a ladder must be used. Plus remember the height of your Guardrails >950mm
Asher  
#9 Posted : 14 May 2013 14:34:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Asher

Hello all, Thank you for the various replies. My apologies for vague details; the scaffold is in fact an independent, 6-board wide, 3 storey scaffold. I have used the aforementioned legislation provided by leadbelly and Rob Jones, both of which were well received and helped support my decision to management. It has been agreed they will not be using any stepladders, but will instead extend the scaffolding. Thank you to all again for the prompt replies, much appreciated from a newbie.
boblewis  
#10 Posted : 14 May 2013 14:36:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Rather reminds me of the electrician working close to the edge of the fifth floor handrails with an 80ft drop adjacent to the atrium floor. He seemed to not understand he was above the protection of the handrails. Ahh well that is construction for you. You could of course extend the scaffold height to allow guard rails but then you would not need a stepladder - shucks that will annoy them. Just rest back on the good old work at height regs:-) Bob
Invictus  
#11 Posted : 14 May 2013 14:50:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

I would say no you can't, under WAHR you should ensure that the right equipment is used and if you are then adding a ladder above the height of the guard rail then what is the poiint of the guard rail. Get the correct piece of equipment 'cherry picker' purhaps or the correct scaffold that will enable you to reach it.
jarsmith83  
#12 Posted : 15 May 2013 16:45:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

My view initially was, why not? but following the description of your scaffold set up I would say that as others have pointed out WAHR states: Avoidance of risks from work at height 6.—(1) In identifying the measures required by this regulation, every employer shall take account of a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations. (2) Every employer shall ensure that work is not carried out at height where it is reasonably practicable to carry out the work safely otherwise than at height. (3) Where work is carried out at height, every employer shall take suitable and sufficient measures to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, any person falling a distance liable to cause personal injury. Clearly this is a breach of these regs without doubt. I have used design scaffolds on major project which are a lot larger in size which have clear demarcation of where step ladders can be used in order to make it clear to users that beyond the demarcation the hand rails are not sufficient to prevent a fall. The ground area of the scaffold had to be covered specifically to make the floor area level and fit for purpose. Have they thought about the gaps between scaffold boards that may be there or may occur from use? If you have overall responsibility then stamp authority. If you are merely in an advisory role, you may have to pass the information up the supply chain and I am sure that by the time it gets to director level the work would not take place in such a way.
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 15 May 2013 20:27:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

It's a short shap no from me on this. if a 'tower' cannot do the job then mewp or independent tied. Never mind what the regs say or don't say, have a think on this Asher
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